ALDS Postmortem

Thanks Mark. I mean it when I say sincerely this has been a great place. Thanks for your insights and feedback.

"It looks like Torre is out, Piniella is in."

*sigh* I am actually a little scared for the future of this team if that is the case. I truly believe that you are are right, and people won't realize how good they had it with Joe. Ironically though, Pinella might just have been the one manager who can handle Arod and get the most of out of him. The question I have is, how will the "Torre era players" handle it?

I shudder to think of Wang and Philip Hughes and the other young pitching guys coming in under him too. :(

If the Yankees do dump Arod, and he does go to the Angels, I see it coming back to haunt them.

I mean, c'mon, the Angels already own the Yankees. Are they going to give them one more weapon? Not sure I like that idea. But I'm not making the decisions. But I do think either Arod goes or Torre goes. I'll be very surprised if it's both of them.

Well I guess we'll just have to wait and see - make for an interesting off season. I will be sorry to see Arod go if that is what it comes to. I'm sure that is no surprise to anyone. I hate the thought that he will thrive somewhere else - and I have this sixth sense somewhere that it will come back to bite the Yankees eventually. But if thats what he needs - I wish him all the best. I wish it could have worked out in New York, and I am very sad that it didnt. I'm still a yankee fan, no matter what. Even though if Pinella is back might, that make it a bit of a challenge sometimes, lol.

Good night, everyone. Mark, I hope this off season brings you some well-deserved time off with your family too and some quality Redskins football time. :-)

"If the Yankees do dump Arod, and he does go to the Angels, I see it coming back to haunt them."

LOL Rob .. go to bed and get out of my head!!

This from Wikipedia:

After retiring as a player, Piniella managed the Yankees in the late 1980s and briefly served as the club's general manager in 1988 and 1989.

After his mangerial stint with the Yankees, Piniella managed the Cincinnati Reds in the early 1990s, winning the 1990 World Series.

Hired as manager of the Yankees to replace Joe Torre.

??????????? Read that last line.

Oh well. Time to route for the real NY team. Let's Go Mets. At least they have a pulse.

Angel ... that may be the most annoying part of this whole thing. I was going to watch the second half of the Redskins-Giants game on Sunday when I got home, and now I have to go to the stadium!

Mark, have you heard anything about Donnie Baseball? Do you think his job as hitting coach is secure? Thanks for all of your hard work!

OMG...what more can you really say?...A-Rod is a bum...get rid of him...but seriously...does anyone feel like they just got ran over by a freeking car??? The Detroit Tigers...the losers of the whole second half...whooped us...Jared Wright...aka Kevin Brown...come on...everyone knew what was going to happen 2nite...Get rid of all those bum NL pitchers...get rid of K-ROD...and get some guys who CARE about winning...

Thank You Mark for this blog. It was fun meeting all sorts of Yankee fans. I guess if The Boss is looking for a fall guy, Torre is the most visible one. I don't know much about Piniella as a manager, what's he like?
If they're intent on trading ARod, I hope its to the NL.

Anyway, 'til next season, my fellow disgusted, disappointed and probably drunk Yankee fans.

Torre should not go. A-Rod is not a bum. If a bum is someone that hits 290, has 35 HRs and over 120RBI then I'd hate to bring home an A- report card to you. The team won more games than any other during the season (save for the Muts). They annialated the "Sox" in that infamous 5 game series AT FENWAY. They won with key injuries to important players. R.Johnson had a subpar year. There pitching staff (starters and bullpen) were so-so in my view. Funny, under these circumstances ... most experts were willing to give Torre Manager of the Year honors in mid August. A manager's impact is most felt thru the course of an entire season. To this extent Torre was as successful as anyone. At some point the players must win the games and rise to the level of champions. All of the players have to hit with runners in scoring position. All of the pitchers have to get ahead on a batter. It is a team that wins the WS ... not a manager, an individual player or even the team that wins the Yankees-Redsox season series. The team chemestry changed, unfortunately, at the wrong time. The team that got the Yankees there was the team of Andy Phillips, Melke Cabrerra, Miguel Ciaro and even Bubby Crosby. Not that it should of happened that way or that it could not have happened with the lineup fielded by the Yanks during the Division Series ... but it did happen with a bunch of kids that were largely AAA material. I wonder what the result would have been if Melke started each game in left field, Bernie at DH and Giambi/Phillips alternating at first? The press would have killed ... unless, that is, the Yankees were flying back to Yankee Stadium today instead of home. They had a great manager and team this year. They still do today.

?????????????????????????????
I just don't get it. with the team that George assembled there should be 5 more trophies on his shelf. But when a team has no will to win and no heart that's what we can all expect.

It seemed that the Yankees were rolling into the playoffs..What happened in between? Too many Days off? Some kind of disagreement in the clubhouse? Underestimating the Tigers? The lack of fire after the first game is staggering and has left us heartbroken. Personally, I want Joe Girardi to run the team (I wanted that last year)..I know everyone is saying he is going to the Cubs, but this is the perfect fit for him and us. He would instill the fire going into the playoffs we need. Arod Must Go...It just cannot work here obviously and along with him can go: Lidle, Wright, Sheffield, RJ (if we can somehow find a way to get him to retire) and Pavano (contract Breach?).

I think if it's Cashman calling the shots, Torre's job is safe. I think *and hope) A-Rod will be traded. I know pretty much everyone was bad this year in the postseason but 2-29 over 2 full postseasons just doesn't cut it around here. They should be able to get 2-3 good pitchers and maybe a position player for him.

Ken Rosenthal from Fox reports that Torre got fired...http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6041078?FSO1&ATT=HMA

Sorry Joe must go! Six years of postseason failure with some of the most talented players in baseball under him is not acceptable. Yes the pitching broke down but did you see the dougout shots. I am tired of seeing Torre looking like he falling asleep while Rome is burning. When is players need a fire lit under their butts he's struggling to keep his eyes open. And A-Rod he'll probably stick around. Although he's got that big contract ,Texas is still paying part of it. And while Joe is leaving can he take that pompous John Sterling with him. I can't stand listening to his game calling anymore.

Torre should go but Pinella would be a huge trade down. Girardi would be an infusion of energy to shake up the old team.

This will be my first visit to your blog, but not the last. I am here with my 8 year old daughter who is crying because her uncle called this a.m saying that reports are saying Torre is gone and Piniella is in. Joe should not take the blame for this. That man has done wonders for the Yankee organization. He is a picture perfect manager. And an angel to have handled George Steinbrenner for all these years. The Yanks could of done better. Game 3 was like they were going through the motions in the outfield. But, Torre did his job in trying to change things up a little.I'm not sure what else could have been done. I hope George thinks about this hard! Because i'd say a good 90% or more of fans would say KEEP JOE TORRE!! As for A-Rod if he gets traded i wouldn't be surprise. Although i don't agree with it either. If Joe goes, a tradition will be gone. A great team will be gone. I hope Joe Girardi would be a consideration as your other blogger had mentioned. Loe Piniella not my first choice what so ever. Thanks for being here to vent to. Thanks for your hard work and time!

nyyangel74:

It does not matter if my comments annoy you and say things that offend you, especially right now. This board is Mark's board, and as I know, there is free speech in this country. I can write whatever I want that pertains to the Yankees, as long as Mark finds it acceptable and it is not obscene/inappropriate material. You can ready any NY newspaper today, and writers are writing the same thing. It's your choice to read my comments or not, so if you find them offensive to you, just don't read it. It's that simple.

Thanks Mark for the blog and good luck with your family in October. Look forward to the rest of the postseason, which should still be a blast.

I have never "blogged" before in my life. I basically feel like it is for people with too much time on their hands. But I am "old school". I am still upset that the Pirates beat the Yankees in 1960. How ever, I just want to say that I think most of you are right that George will fire Joe Torre and hire "Sweet Lou". All I can say is Joe Torre is the best manager the Yankees have EVER had or will have. He represents what is right with Baseball. ****, he, Jetter and guys like A-Rod. (Yes A-Rod) are what is RIGHT with sports. They are models of respect and dignity and can not be better roll models for our much troubled youth. I now live near Dallas and I will take Torre, Jetter and A-Rod ANY DAY over "T.O." Consider yourselves fortunate Yankee fans. Your are a witness to one of the greatest era's in baseball. It can only go down hill from here. Winning is good but consider the price. The Yankees are fun to watch with the current "crew" and I for one will miss them dearly if they are broken up. It has been a fun ride.

If Joe Torre is fired, I am thankful for the days that we had him. You are pure class.

Thank you Mark, for the many hours of Yankeeness. Now we can enjoy watching the Tigers or Athletics sweep the **** out of the Mets in the World Series. =) True destiny, I hope.

Lou Piniella coming to New York? O_O Lord, just kill me now!

It's not that I have anything personal against Piniella, but I'm sure we all remember the amazing wonders he did with Tampa Bay. And besides, how could we let go of Joe Torre? How could we let go of the guy who led us to one of the most prolonged periods of success for our Yanks?

Maybe I'm stuck in 1998, but I feel we'd be just dumb ducks to fire Torre. Maybe we should just write off this year and have a nice fire sale. A-Rod would be the first to go, though it's shameful that his career in New York would have to end this way. We could pick up some sexy pitching from the Angels if we do get rid of him. Or maybe we could send him to the Marlins and get some nice, young pitching in return. Pitching was our Achilles' heel against the Tigers, giving up early runs and falling behind in the last two games spelled the end. And what about Minnesota? Last time I checked, the highest man on their third-base depth chart is a utility infielder. I'd love to take some of their pitching too.

I'm not opposed to bringing in a new manager, I love Joe but the team needs a new personality. The team need fire, they need to be hungry again. There's no excuse for what happened

...by this time next week there will be a new manager for the yankees...(Lou Piniella)...

If Lou comes in, I think A-Rod will be back next year.

Other trades will be made and rightly so. Ask yourself, if would you take the best regular season team of all-time if you knew you would lose in the first round of the playoffs? No. For the Yankees, the regular season is the pre-season. It's time to hit the reset button just like in 1996.

I am a big Torre fan, but I must admitt that the team appeared to need a good kick in the butt and it never came. A-Rod hit well when it didn't matter; when it mattered, e.g. with runners in scoring position, and the game on the line, he stunk!! Baseball is full of statistics do they have one on getting a base hit with runners in scoring poition, and one's team is behind? RBI's don't tell the full story. Just think how the Yankees would have done with David Ortiz hitting instead of A-Rod!!!!!!!!!!!!

John, I don't know about you, but I'd rather comb my eyeballs with a fork than trade for Ortiz, especially after he got all whiny, talked about how Jeter shouldn't be the MVP, then cried out to the Boston media that his words were twisted around.

all i have to say is this Piniella????? AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ESPN: "Booed frequently during the regular season at Yankee Stadium, the two-time AL MVP might have worn out his welcome in Bronx after three unsuccessful years."

OMFG ARE THEY KIDDING ME? THREE UNSUCCESSFUL YEARS?

Unfortunately I heard on the news this morining that they did in fact fire Joe Torre. I really hope that it is not true. I don't think he should be taking the fall for this ridiculous outting. As of 2 weeks ago everyone was happy with him when they qualified early. It is the team that went out there and just weren't hitting. So unless people expected him to be up there swinging the bat for them I think it is wrong. Torre has been part of this team for 11 years and with all he has done I think he deserves the right to play out the last year of his contract. I started watching the Yankees play in 96 when he took over and I think he truely is the face of a baseball manager. He is a truely a caring manager and if you go back and watch all the games from the past 11 years you can see in his face that he truely cares about his players with every hug every smile every walk on the field. Yes alot needs to be looked at with what happened in this series but firing Joe is not the first thing they should have thought of.

They might shop A-Rod but he will be HARD to move. The Yankees will want a lot in return, the other team will have to pay him, and A-Rod won't want to go to a losing team, and he won't want to admit failure.

I love Joe, i think he is a great guy! would be a shame to see him go. My wife works on his sunglasses you see him wear during the daygames, BUT, if he does go, WHY Piniella??? i dont get it! how the **** does george think he is the right fit for this team?

Torre is all I've known of the Yankees in my short life ever since I seriously started following them and it will hurt for him to go.

I love Joe Torre and mostly all the members of the current team and hope that they don't break them up.

But can someone out there PLEASE answer me a simple question.

If your whole season is on the line why not pitch Wang on short rest? Then we could have thrown Mussina at them on Sunday.

We basically threw our two worst starters out there against a focused and hungry Grade A playoff team who obviously deserves to be there for a reason.

I am SO sick and tired of the way pitchers are treated so delicately. Ask someone like a Satchel Paige if he would have went on Saturday.

My understanding is that they never even brought Wang to Detroit. Are you serious??

I definitely feel a bit let down this year. Maybe it is time to shake it up a bit.

:(

Firing Torre would be a huge mistake...It's not his fault the players played like heartless robots in this series. Torre doesn't field, hit or pitch...he did all he could to give the team the best chance of winning but they just didn't give a very good effort for him.

First of all, I am sad it was another exit from the playoffs
(six years now), but I don't believe its right how the press is saying Joe Torre is going to get fired!!. If anyone deserve to get fired...its Brian Cashman!!!! Rather then searching for pitching, he gets power hitters. Pitching wins games, and since he took over GM, Yankees has been cursed. Bring back Gene Michael or someone that knows the game. Joe Torre has been the heart of the Yankees along with Jeter, Bernie, and Posada.

Its going to be a sad and long winter for us Yankees fans.

The firing of Joe Torre certainly represents the end of an era for the New York Yankees, but was the era not already over? The Yankees looked the worst I have ever seen them play last night, and that is certainly not a good thing. They were so flat, it was clear they had absolutely no chance to win. Maybe firing Torre isn't such a bad thing. They need a change. Certainly trading Alex Rodriguez is a good idea. Maybe we can get Weaver/Santana/Figgins/Kendrick. Or at least two of them. It will be sad to see Joe Torre go, and the next time you will be seeing him is when he gets his number retired at Yankee Stadium. We will miss you Joe. But it's time for a change, and I think everybody involved knows that.

Mark, somehow get this to Brian Cashman. We need pitching and youth, not more allstars!!
http://johndford.mlblogs.com/

Been keeping up with the blog and think everyone here are great fans. Remember, everyone is hired knowing eventually will be replaced. I love Torre and its not his fault the underachieved. But you can't fire the 25 players. Just hope Lou is the right fit.

you have to feel sorry for Arod, the press does do him a grave injustice. However, he also does himself injustice by the way he handles the press. Also how he swings the bat in post season.

I would LOVE to see him goto the Marlins, after all he lives in Miami.

In return I would love to have MIguel Cabrera he is consistantly awesome and young.

It would be even better if we got D-Train with that trade but It's just wishful thinking.

inspite of any of my b**ching this year, it ends with a dagger in my heart.

Will get'em next year no matter who's gone or not!!!!

I have been a "yankee" fan since I was a young child. We have the baseball package so that we can watch the yankees play evey chance that we have in my work schedule. I AM STILL A YANKEE FAN. My husband even took me to New York last year for my anniversary to visit the standium and watch my beloved team. We, true yankee fans, need to stop the "finger pointing" and stand behind and support our team! Am I disappointed? Sure. The play-offs now have no meaning to me. My beloved husband is a Cubs fan and has been his entire life. I have learned from him. You still support your team, no matter what happens in the post season. Keep Joe, A-Rod and on an on. We need to get pitchers that can provide the "fire" and energy that we use to see in that position. I am looking to the future and how we can become the yankees of the past. Now is the time that we rally around our team and plan for the future and stop the "finger pointing". I will always be a yankee, even if I have southern roots. Yankee team, we are still here and we are still supporting you!
Su

NC

John, I love your ideas. I was thinking the same with Santana, Lackey, and Shields for A-Rod though I think Wright might become a FA after this year.

whoa whoa whoa, we are ont gonna get lackey santana AND shields for a rod, no freaken way....i can see santana and maybe shields, or santana figgins and a prospect or something but not that

thanks for a great season guys - now the big question - what to do in the offseason?? i am excited for what trades and dealings may or may not come about. A few concerns - I'd hate to see Joe Torre go. I do agree they need a "spark" in the clubhouse and I think what may have been lacking this year was Steinbrenner himself. He was rather quiet all year and I heard a rumor that he was sick, possibly had a stroke. Any chances of this being true? Also, any chances he'd be willing to sell the team to a young woman on long island?? All kidding aside, keep Joe, and maybe get someone in the coaching team that can light a fire under these guys a$$es. I don't want to see arod go. I like him and i want to continue to see him break all those records in a yankee uniform. I wish there was a way to get the press off his back so he could jsut play and not watch his every move. Sheff definately needs to go, I'd like to see some younger arms as starters but one thing that really concerns me is Melky. I don't want to see him dealt, we need him in pinstripes, along with Cano and Wang as the youngsters that keep this crew alive.

Only time will tell what will happen, but seriously, any suggestions on what to do in the offseason would be greatly appreciated!

Thomas,
I knew it wouldn't matter to you. But I had NO choice but to read it when you posted the entire thing here, because in the past as I said, I have enjoyed reading your posts. You used to comments section of another blog to post your own blog post, when you have your own blog for that - thats generally considered bad manners on the internet. I felt that it was insensitive and crass, and exercised my freedom of speech to say so. Choosing to post the entire post instead of a link (which would have allowed me to not click on it and ignore it) as I said to Jeff (and his post was 10 times worse after twisting my words) was what bothered me.

That does súck, Mark. Especially considering the Yankees season is over. I guess there will be news about Torre etc. At least football season has plenty of time left, and you'll get some more games in. It must be nice to just be able to be a pure fan of team for your enjoyment and not have to report on it, lol.

I have not read that much other than this blog and a tiny bit of Pete's. I am avoiding most media.

I really hope Joe Torre is not gone. I do, however, hope there are a number of changes exchanging youth for wealthy veterans going through the motions.

Really hope Joe survives this. He is the ultimate Yankee manager I think.

Vince, I will miss your show. Heading out for a turkey dinner and to watch the Patriot game. Go Pats!

Happy Thanksgiving to our Canadian bloggers. Canadian Thanksgiving is tomorrow.

Go Yankees! Oh, wait, it's over. My mistake.

"OMFG ARE THEY KIDDING ME? THREE UNSUCCESSFUL YEARS?"

JJC

Well, if you buy into Jeter's philosophy (no wonder why so many fans feel entitled to win the WS each year) any season that doesn't yield a WS trophy IS a failure. So therefore, A-Rod has had three seasons of unsuccess and failure.

Personally, I think a re-think or readjustment of that philosophy might be in order, but thats just my opinion.

Didn't the Angels offer Kendrick and Santana for Tejada? If so, then the Yankees would be stupid not to trade A-Rod to the Angels. The Angels might even throw Shields in there.

Torre was a great manager for this team, but I think it's time for a change. The Yanks didn't play with any passion in the playoffs (I saw Damon joking around late in the game yesterday) and while it might not be Torre's fault, a new manager would certainly light a spark under these underachieving millionaires. Both Girardi and Pinella are former Yankees and both are intense managers. However, I would hire Girardi because he's young and he'll be here for the long haul. Pinella isn't going to last more than 3 years.

If Girardi couldn't handle working with Loria, then how on earth will he handle Steinbrenner though? Even though he's mellowed somewhat - I can't see him taking that either.

I'd much rather have Girardi rather than Pinella.

IF A-Rod gets traded, I would feel better if he was in the National League......but I don't think A-Rod should be traded, Giambi and sheffield should go first as they are older and not as healthy. A-Rod plays everyday and is a 40/120/100 player. Maybe a new manager will help A-Rod.

My updated lineup

-Damon CF

-Jeter SS

-Abreu RF

-A-Rod 3B

-Matsui LF

-Posada C

-Giambi DH

- ??? 1B

-Cano 2B

Giambi will be hard to move but I think he will be a great DH when his wrist heals

Priorites

1-get younger pitching

2-get firstbaseman

3- new manager, sorry Joe but it's time

I am glad changes will be made, but I think it will be a bad move to get rid of A-Rod. It's easy to make a wrong decision based on emotions <24 hours after being beaten

============

I heard a good point on Mike Francesa's radio program this morning......the formula to draw 4,000,000 in attendance is different than the formula to win a championship.....

.....the "circus" method where you have an all-star at every position is how to draw 4 million, but you need a solid TEAM that gels together and can overcome adversity wins world series'. the teams of the late 90's could fight back into games, this team just folds....

....I am very much looking forward to 2007. It will be a different chapter in Yankee history. joe torre has nothing to worry about, his greatness is already cemented in yankee lore. He will forever be loved by Yankee fans forever, but we all know that you can't be manager forever. I look at this as a breath of fresh air and a new start. I don't see the Yankees losing a division any time soon as the red sox aren't what they used to be. and toronto isn't quite ready yet to climb the mountain.

What's that Torre has always said? "We'll go just as far as our starting pitching will take us"? Well, he was right. Yankees haven't won it all since Cone departed, haven't been there since they ditched AP.

And Torre is a little wrong, proved himself a little wrong, proving that he, Torre, could manage the team to position farther than the starting pitching would warrant, in 2004,05, and again this year.

The team certainly does not need to get rid of Torre, and especially not replace him with Lou (an absolute disaster in the making).

Moving A-Rod? Looking, getting A-Rod was a bad move, a panic reaction to the 2003 loss-- get A-Rod, lose Soriano, get Kevin Brown lose Clemens, Andy? Bad moves.

Moving A-Rod? He might want to move himself-- hits over 100 home runs, drives in over 300 runs, and has to be afraid to walk the streets, here?

Come on, it's all about the pitching, about building a core, and a corps, of pitchers and then building around them as necessary.

It was bad time to pick to slump offensively. But for a Yankees team with no appreciable pitching, they had a great season. All true Yankees fans knew that when the bats stopped, so would the season. Cashman needs to wake up and smell the pitching. We need at least two starters and Randy Johnson needs to be in another uniform. The Yankees will always be in the hunt for the post season, with a pitching change this off season, they make it back to the world series. Stop blaming A-Rod or Torre, the 21st Century version of Murderers Row ALDS slump is what killed us.

I think it's insane to blame Torre for this loss in the season. He wasn't up there scoring 3 runs in 3 games. He wasn't up there giving up 18 runs in 3 games. Unfortunately, nothing that anyone says changes peoples minds, but guess what, Torre brought 4 titles here, that wasn't enough. The pitching was terrible except for Wang. Johnson needs to stay home for the rest of his life, Jaret Wright needs to go to anywhere to play anything else but baseball, and they should turn Carl Pavano into the new bat boy, because thats about all he is good for. I love Moose and Wang, but if noone hits, they look like the bad guys.

there they go blamming a-rod for the season. give me a break! yea, a-rod didn't hit but what about everyone else. i said it before and i'll say it again, FIX THE BULLPEN!!!!! the yanks need some young blood in the pitching arena. Lidle is a bum, Wright is too wishy washy, and johnson needs to retire. Proctor is good but for how long, after each of these preceeding bozos. yea, go ahead and blame a-rod and you all will be blaming a real long time.

Why do people want to let go of Sheff? Talk about a haunt for next year if we do. Honeslty, he did great at first base for never had played that position. YEs he stunk but he hadn't played all year, do you FORGET that?

I mean if he spends time this off-season learning first base and get his bat back he would be very well suited for that spot next year. DH GIambi or trade Giambi, I mean he is a home run hitter so perfect for DH.

Do any of you remember what type of terror Sheffield is at the plate and his numbers since he has been a Yankee before he got hurt?

Man, IMHO we would be idiots not to pick sheff up for another year!

I am sorry for that nyyangel74. Actually, I do not have my own blog, mlb.com made some mistake and changed it to my name instead of the email address. I understand how you feel right now about the team. Like I said, I don't mind you or anyone criticizing what I say, I just mind when people criticize my right to say it, even if it takes up a big section on Mark's blog.

Anyway, a lot of issues are swirling around here. ARod needs to go, somewhere, because he obviously cannot handle New York and it would be better for him so he won't get roasted by the fans another year. Torre, I'd think again. He sure has not managed aggressively as in the past, and has lost his touch in the playoffs, but the problem with all the past is beyond him. Not sure on how to manage him--if he is fired, that will be his '07 salary lost, I think. And I doubt Lou Pinella or Joe Giraldi would do any better.

The Yanks need to try to get best prospects, esp. pitchers in return. I doubt Angeles or Twins would give up that much, not even E. Santana. That's how those teams are so successful--by developing their players and cycling youth. We'll see what Cashman can pull off this season.

Look forward to watch the Tigers and A's, should be good matchup. Sure there is no New York or Boston in ALCS and TV ratings will be down, but the teams that got here deserve to contend for the World Series, and a true baseball fan would keep on watching how the series turn out. As Lasorda says, "To the TV again..."

Hey guys, I was thinking, about the need for a 1b who can play D without getting injured AND contribute with the bat...what about a trade with the Indians? Wright/RJ/Villone/prospects or any of the above combinations for Victor Martinez (to play 1st) or Andy Marte? Martinez would obviously be the bigger bat, but I'm not sure how skilled he is at 1b. I do know that the Indians are going to look to trade one of them though, so why not to us?

On Pete's blog, firing Torre and hiring Piniella is sounding both imminent and horrible. He is saying that a lot of the coaching staff would change and even specifically mentioned Mattingly and Guidry?! NO! Wang needs Guidry! Melky needs Mattingly! And Mo is going to HATE having Piniella as a manager, probably he will retire way sooner than he would if Torre stayed or even if Girardi came in.

People have said that Girardi respects Torre too much to take his job but maybe if Torre calls him and tells him it is okay, his qualms will disappear. Say what you will about Joe Torre but he always comports himself with class, and I believe that if he does get fired, he will leave with his head held high and continue to want the best for the team. Which, being replaced by Girardi instead of Piniella EPITOMIZES what is best for the team.

People on Pete's blog are talking smack about Jeter and it is making me mad. It is just like the YES boards over there and I have not even taken a gander at those boards since the 03-04 offseason when all these pieces of **** for brains there said that Jeter should be traded if he wasn't willing to move positions so Alex could play SS. UGH! Where is the loyalty to our captain?!?

Anyone who says that Gina, doesn't know sh.it about the Yankees

shef a rod and mussina: i want them all out.

Shef has been injured on and off for two years now and has been a ghost in the playoffs since he came here. The guy will be 39, to me, if you think shef should stay you have learned nothing the last 6 seasons, nothing at all. You don't win with washed up aging sluggers. Shef in right field in fenway would be a disaster, let them take him so epstein can eat his words of rebuilding with youth.

Mussina is a good pitcher but he has slowed down the last few years, esp in the 2nd half with injuries. He is a teflon pitcher. I love moose as much as the next person but he is not a good fit here anymore, esp for 16 million. Maybe if we got him back for 5-7 for two years with incentives it's a good deal when we can afford to have him injured for a few weeks down the stretch and pitch 6 innings and give up 4 runs in his playoff starts. Use his money, along with wrights to land matsuzaka. Use the a rod trade to land another stud young starting pitcher, a third baseman and another reliever maybe.

Get a rod out of here. I supported him all season but the situation he has here is not great for either side. No matter what he says I guarantee he is miserable, he came to win and he hasn't, he has just gotten ulcers instead. We wanted a gold glove mvp and we got an unsure slugger who does nothing in the postseason. We don't need a rods bat to make the playoffs, we do need a bat in the playoffs to win the world series, he does not give us that.

Recap: A rod, sheffield, mussina, wright out.

Reliever, starter, matsuzaka, third baseman in.

Dump villone, dump lidle, and give an incentive deal to dotel. Use the leftover money for a backup catcher that is capable of starting (josh bard type).

Resign proctor, bruney, myers (he is still a better lefty specialist than we have had in awhile) and give melky a contract.

recap: bullpen: proctor, bruney, myers, rivera, a trade aquisition, farnsworth and dotel in the pen.

And keep an eye on veras, i liked what he had to offer. If you don't like the dotel 2nd chance then keep rasner or karstens as a long reliever and start the other one.

Try and trade giambi, if not make him the permeanent 1st baseman. get rid of guys like guile, and all the other loose ends that were helpful for the short term. Go out and get a solid gloved 1st baseman that is a fundamental hitter, not necessarily one for power. It would be nice if we got figgins in the deal for a rod.

Promote guys like hughes and clippard and brentcox to AAA and call them up in september.

Recap: drop the loose ends, a rod, fasano, lidle, wright, mussina, sheffield, villone.

Sign and aquire: A stud reliever (a shields type), a third baseman, a solid first baseman, a backup catcher that can segue us to out stud catcher in the minors, matsuzaka and another solid starter.

The team in '07:

1st base: FA

2nd base: Cano

SS: Jeter

3rd: trade Aquisition

Catcher: posada with a solid backup

Left field: matsui

Center: damon

Right: abreu

4th of: cabrera (on days he doesn't start he is the first bat off the bench)

If bernie retires, get a cheap veteran bat for the bench too.

Starters: Wang, matsuzaka, Trade aquisition, Johnson, Karstens. (next year, clippard and hughes fill johnson and possibly karstens spot...how sick is the '08 rotation going to be?)

Bullpen: Rivera, farnsworth, proctor, bruney (a double edged 7th inning sword), rasner (long relief) and myers. If you want dotel, then proctor long relief, but reflecting now, i like my original bullpen that includes rasner.

Any thoughts?

Amen Alex. That is what I just posted in there to them in so many words. I said you guys are not fans of the Yankees, you're fans of winning. And how quick they are to turn their backs on the guy who had delivered 4 championships to NY. It makes me nauseous. JETER FOR PRESIDENT!

Why on earth would the Indians do that, a24diun@yahoo.com?

oh i forgot the trade aquisition in the bullpen

it is more like:

Rivera (closer)

Farnsy (set up man)

Trade Aquisition (another set up man capable)

Proctor ( 7th inning)

Bruney (6th or 7th inning)

Myers (lefty specialist)

Long relief (rasner/karstens, let them fight for it)

and I meant keep giambi as the permeanent DH

12 pitchers, 13 fielders, the 9 starting plus melky, resign cairo, then either bring up thompson from the minors or sign that cheap of veteran bat to replace bernie, or resign bernie but never let him play the field, then sign a corner infielder, or resign phillips.

The RJ/Wright/Villone for Marte or Martinez. The Yankees would certainly have to give up Hughes to get one of those guys.

Torre has to go, I agree he has been a great manager. The key word being 'has been' and not anymore. He's made too many pitching mistakes. Leaving pitchers in too long and taking them out too soon.. How could anyone have The worst starting pitcher start such an important game as Wright... That was a desister in the making... Slow minded Joe Gotta Go! Arod help get this team to the playoffs, anyone who thinks he should go, should join Joe Torre in the outta touch ranks!

Vince I agree with you that if we do trade A-Rod to the Angels, we HAVE to get Figgins in return. I've always liked the way he played and a player like him would fit in great with the whole manufacture runs rather than wait for the long ball thing we're trying to do.

However--big surprise here lol--I disagree about Mussina. I do agree that 17 mil (that's what his option would be I believe) is way too much but Moose is very well aware of that too. He has no intentions of asking them to pick up the option. He simply wants to finish his career with the same team rather than adjusting to a new one and according to several sources plans to make it very easy on the Yanks to re-sign him to a 1 or 2 year deal. So if it is gonna be economical (which it would) than I don't see any reason not to bring him back, especially with so many youngsters in the rotation that can and will be helped by Moose's veteran experience and leadership. I know he is not the pitcher he was when we signed him, but he is still more than good and consistent enough IMO to be a 4th or 5th starter for less money than he's getting paid now.

As far as coaching and Pavano: get pavano out, he will never make it here either. I don't care if he has another year or whatever on his contract.

Coaching: guidry is great, keep him, pena is awesome, esp for posada, keep him, bowa has been great, fire torre it is time for a chance and keep mazzili....which btw, why not lee for manager? He has managerial experience and was by torre's side all of this year, he also was a yankee was he not? I think he would be a good fit. I think if they sign piniella it is as punishment for being so carefree in the playoffs, THAT is one thing lou will not allow

My mother used to say, "Too much of anything is good for nothing." Too many "superstars" and no pitching was a recipe for an entertaining baseball season and a quick end to the post season. Trying to get Matsui and Sheffield back into the lineup was a big mistake. We had the injection of youth that we needed in Melky and we shelved him when we needed him most.I think when Jeter got that homer in game 1 the rest of the team thought the series was over. They lacked the energy and excitement that Detroit had and they never got mad like Detroit did when they lost that first game. We need pitching, not Zito! Young, hard throwers. We have gone the free agent route and not one pitcher since 2000 has brought the type of pitching that Roger and Andy gave us. Moose was never what he was going to be. You never knew which Moose was going to show up especially in the last 3 years. Randy, ten years too late. Pavano, when he pitches a game I will have a comment. I don't think AROD, Torre or Cashman were the problem. Bringing Pinela in will not bring us a championship. Bringing in some good arms will.

I have been a yankee fan for forty years. While Joe Torre has been the manager I always feel a win is going to happen. In the past when we were changing managers every year and sometimes twice a year I never got that feeling. If Joe is fired it will be sometime before we see the Yanks back in the world series. Does the team need some overhauling, yes. Now let Cashman do his magic and keep the manager that has been to the post season every year. I have nightmares of the late 60's returning

I like the idea of Aramis Ramirez at 3B if hes available.

Jonathan, well if they have to give up Hughes that would be the dealbreaker unfortunately. But I don't think they would necessarily have to. The Indians need help badly and they need to trade either Martinez or Marte so they can acquire other things they desperately need, like a real catcher and SS. Maybe we could give them Wil Nieves, Villone and a prospect or two. By no means do I think we should trade Hughes or Clippard, but I think we could get that deal done w/o trading them.
However, speaking of catchers, the Yankees need to draft one, and soon.

i feel terrible a24 because i never remember ur name, but anyway, i said if they got mussina for 7 million tops, and two years with incentives to make about 10 million, then i'm on board. Then the rotation is wang matsuzaka mussina a trade aquisition like santana and johnson...now that is dirty.

Another bright thing about figgins, he is a yankee killer haha, at the very least we get him on our side like we did with damon. He also has a ring, so he knows how to win and he tortured people in the postseason. I think the angels get hurt with a rod, their team dynamic changes against us.....and with figgins ours does too, don't know where he would hit int he lineup but with jeter figgins damon abreu cano in the lineup....this is a team that can hit like the yankees and run like the devilrays.

Alex I hear that the Phillies are courting Aramis Ramirez heavily so if we want to get him we would have to make a move quickly. I think they have been looking at him since even before they traded Bell.

and a24, they did draft a catcher, the problem is he is 17 i believe and about 3-4 years away from the majors...the guy is over 6 feet nad 200 pounds though and clubs 21 yr old pitching, he is going to be a monster.

LOL it's cool. My name's Gina. Your proposed contract with Moose sounds like a good one to me. I might give him a few more mil but I would give him a lot of things that you likely would not, ****.

Figgins is the sh*t. Everytime someone brings up the topic of "underrated players" he is always the first person I name. He can play so many positions and beat you in so many different ways it is ridiculous. If we traded A.Rod I would want to get him, maybe Kendrick and either Santana or Jered Weaver in return. But I do think it's possible that the Angels will go and get Soriano instead of ARod.

Oh good. Glad to hear they did finally draft one, even if he is still young. With a younger and better-hitting backup, Posada can hang for a few more years until it is time to mentor the new guy.

Gina! That's right i got it now....manny is also in the mix in anaheim, the redsox sorely want santana too...I think a rod for santana or lackey, figgins and a reliever would be acceptable

any word yet on whether or not torre was actually fired?

Santana sort of reminds me of a young Pedro...I think he could be very very good some day.

I agree, santana has a lot of potential and figgins is like reyes but can play litterally anywhere. I'd almost trade a rod just for those two, but if we got shields in addition, i'd **** myself

As relayed by his spokesman, Howard Rubenstein:

"I am deeply disappointed at our being eliminated so early in the playoffs. This result is absolutely not acceptable to me. Nor to all our great and loyal Yankee fans.

I want to congratulate the Detroit Tigers'Â’ organization and wish them well. Rest assured, we will go back to work immediately and try to right this sad failure and provide a championship for the Yankees as is our goal every year."

Rubenstein said Steinbrenner was in New York and "clearly upset." But he would not say whether Joe Torre has been fired. "No comment today on personnel moves,"Rubenstein n said.

Steinbrenner is headed back to Tampa tomorrow.

Nobody at the Stadium, including the coaches we've spoken to, have any idea of Joe's fate.

Pete Abraham reporting.

wonder where all the news outlets got their sources...i definitely think he will be fired, but I don't know if it happened yet

i think it will happen this week

Absolutely, if we got Shields in addition to starting pitching and Figgins for A-Rod, then our bullpen would be SOLID like it has not been since the Stanton/Nelson days.

I am really happy about our pen in general though. This is the first offseason in a long time where I can actually say it improved greatly over a year ago and will only continue to get even better. I think Bruney for example has the potential to become a solid set up man. All he needs to do is work on his location a bit next year and by the time Farnsy is out, he will be ready to be lights out in the 8th.

I can't decide whether I think they are going to trade Proctor or not. I have the feeling that Cash will try to prevent it but if it is up to Steinbrenner and his people he prob. would get traded.

well steinbrenner said cashman has full control so we will see. No reason to trade proctor, i mean what would we get in return? a solid reliever? lol, we have that and he delivered in the playoffs too. Proctor bruney farnsy and rivera would be very very solid and if we got another stud set up man for when farnsy is being a little whining *****, it would be great. The bullpen doesn't need much work but the starters definitely need a makeover.

Yeah the way I see it the only help the bullpen really needs is new lefties. Is Myers under contract for next year? I know he is all great for the clubhouse and whatnot but if we could get a lefty who could actually get more than 1 out, that would be pretty sweet.

btw paul, have fun at ur ironic turkey dinner

This from Wikipedia:

...

Hired as manager of the Yankees to replace Joe Torre.

??????????? Read that last line.

Posted by: marksman@ny-yankees.net | October 8, 2006 02:32 AM

Anyone can add information to Wikipedia, so it's not the most reliable source for information. I don't know what will happen with Torre. It seems that most of the people who are reporting that Torre will be fired are assuming that it will happen.

I agree that changes need to be made. I hope they don't pick up Sheffield's contract. As good of a hitter as he is, I don't trust him. Could it come back to haunt the Yankees if they let him go? Maybe. If he signed with an AL team, he would want to single-handedly beat the Yankees. Maybe he would win a game for an opposing team. But, I have said this before on Pete's blog, I think he is bad karma. Of course there is no statistic to back that up; it is like intangibles, chemistry, etc. But the last few years have reminded me of the teams of the 80s that won nothing.

Gina, Vince, I hope they keep Proctor. He did a good job this year, and I like his attitude.

If they didn't include him at the trade deadline they won't trade him now. You can use that logic for a rod but i truly believe this post season was the deciding factor.

LOL Pinstripes I edit Wikipedia articles all the time. Small things like changing "Tino Martinez had a good season in 1999" to "he had an AMAZING season."...or removing a blurb that Jeter was voted most overrated player in a NESPN poll lol. So if I do it, I'm sure others do too hence the comment about Piniella and Torre.

I really hope they keep Scotty too. He's a workhorse and after seeing him toil in the minors all these years, I couldn't be any happier for him that he is able to contribute the way he did this year. Here is to that continuing in 07!

I agree that Joe needs to go...the team just has looked flat in the postseason for the last couple of years.
Pinella would bring in some fire, and I agree that he may be the one guy out there who could reach through to A-rod as his former manager. However there are some problems, first are A-rod's demons too big to ever get over in NY? Would pacifying A-rod or bringing in an A-rod ally only make the locker room situation worse (especially if it upset Jeter who is still the face, heart and soul of this team)? How would Pinella handle some young pitchers?

Otherwise, thanks mark for all the hard work this year. I wish we were all celebrating a couple of weeks from now, rather than dealing with trade/firing/retirement rumors. I cant be like a Cubs fan and say theres always next year...but see you next year

btw mark, how are you liking my boys embarressing your offense and santana moss right now? Get used to burress owning your soul for the rest of the year

I think too much craziness and reacting too suddenly after a series is mostly the case here, lol. That's normal, but really they need to calm down before making knee jerk reactions.

BTW I agree with the person who said on Peter's blog:- "And critizing Jeter is not turning our backs on him. There is nothing unhealthy about questioning or finding fault, it does not make HIM less of a leader of that club house."

Baseball is a team game and as far as Im concerned every single member of that team is open to evaluation and criticism. Calling for the heads of certain people while neglecting to address the team overall is nothing more than scapegoating. Playing Arod vs Jeter is self defeating, although I can see how it happens. Its Dereks team if they win (if they had of won it would have been Jeter's face on ESPN) just as its Arods face that is the only thing you see now.

Well its a good thing the Giants own one team.. they can't play for **** against Seattle.

seattle schmeattle, they will get theirs and only da bearz seem to be able to handle them anyway......i don't think any moves i requested were knee jerk reactions, this isn't a rod over a span of a few games, this is a rod as a whole, it'd just be better for both sides if he was traded, particularly to the angels......why people are blaming jeter is beyond me, the guy batted 500 this series?

mike (poor dog)... it's not that I don't think sheffield is good offensively and he did a decent job at 1st base for the week and a half that he played it, but he is BAD NEWS for the team ~ his attitude, demeanor, and general disposition is awful. Someone needs to remind him of the old school adage, there is no I in team. YES - he did sacrifce and put the time in to learn first and I give him huge credit for that, and in that sense he was a team player. But look at all the times in the past when he caused trouble for the team because he wasn't getting enough attention. And you can't deny that the mood of the team changed drastically once he came back. I just don't see him as a yankee.

I agree....I say keep A-Rod. He will come around. I do, however, believe it's time for a different manager...... but god forbid if Lou comes in and overuses/wears out Mo and causes him to become injured or less effective. NO YANKEE FAN will accept this.

Figgens disappeared in the Angels last postseason against the Yankees. Just saying, lol.

Detroit is the wild card, sam. Oakland won the west, sam. Who do you THINK has the home field advantage, sam?

Hey all.

I hope this report that Joe is out and Pinhella in is false. If you are going to dump Joe, please, don't go to Pinhella. Get Girardi. Give Mattingly a shot. Anything but Pinhella. Go younger not only in the lineup, but in the manager position as well.

Well, folks, I am ashamed and amazed to say it, but I've finally come to a realization: ARod must go.

It's not his performance. It's not the fact they lost. It's the fact of the circus that is ARod. There is just too much focus on him. I won't even say it's his fault. But that kind of distraction has the potential to ruin teams (a la TO in Philly).

Get him to waive the no-trade clause and send him somewhere else, preferably the NL. Pay some of his contract. (With Texas hopefully still footing some of the bill.) Get the distraction out of the way and focus on baseball.

kzimoulis, you have some valid points there. I still see him as a Yankee and a great DH option though. Especially since it may very well be the case that he goes to boston or some other club in our division. I think he is worth a 1year deal personally and see how he fares.

Those of you who mix salary with baseball are just flat out silly! If a player has a good enough business sense to get more then he is worth who cares?

Seriously, would you tell your boss that they are paying you too much?? C'mon now! It reminds me of the idiots who compare Arod's performace to his salary and say it is not justified. That is sports for ya! How many professional athletes get overpaid? Duh! One has nothing to do with the other. Leave the salary alone, focus on the truths, the heart and the performance. Salary has nothing to do with why we are not advancing in the playoff and never will.

get over it.

ESPN is repoting that sources say that Torre will be replaced by Piniella. (My husband saw it on the crawl on ESPN Neews & ESPN2.)Frankly, I think it is way too early to report that. Game 4 hadn't even started at this point yesterday.

BTW I agree with the person who said on Peter's blog:- "And critizing Jeter is not turning our backs on him. There is nothing unhealthy about questioning or finding fault, it does not make HIM less of a leader of that club house."
Posted by: nyyangel74@yahoo.com | October 8, 2006 03:36 PM

I agree with it too Angel, I just don't think that there is anything that Jeter has done in his handling of the situation that was wrong. I believe what Alex said in the SI article that he doesn't see Jeter's silence as a negative thing. It is easier for me to believe that than to believe that there is negativity between Derek and Alex; I have too much respect for the both of them to believe that they would be unprofessional enough not to squash whatever had gone on between them the moment Alex arrived in NY. So because I don't believe that there actually is beef between the two of them, I also don't believe that Derek has done anything wrong in the way he handled the situation. As far as I'm concerned there was no situation for him to handle, so he couldnt possibly have handled it badly :) I have been accused many a time of wearing rose colored glasses when it comes to Jeter and maybe I do but I also think highly of Alex. Too highly to believe that he would let bad feelings fester with anyone on the team.

Mike, I can't begrudge players for trying to get as much money as they can. If someone offered me millions of dollars, I would be thrilled. But, with a higher salary comes higher expectations. You pay more for someone because he is supposed to get results.

Redskins ****.

Mike, if Sheffield wants to go to Boston I say let him! That would be a huge defensive downgrade for them. Sheff would not measure up in RF to Trot Nixon who has been fielding balls over at Fenway for his entire career. I agree with kzim, Sheff has been a problem for us in a couple respects for a while now. It's now time to let him go be someone else's problem IMO.

ok guys im on the radio right now 4-5 o clock www.wqaq.com if you want to tune in

My husband is a Red Sox fan, and he doesn't want the Red Sox to go after Sheffield, although he thinks they will. The Red Sox have some serious pitching problems to address, so I don't think that Sheffiled would lead them to the world series.

First, As a Red Sox fan (the nice one.. remember? I apologised on behalf of all of us.. for that Fagan jerk), I agree that Sheffield needs to stay FAR FAR away from Boston. No one can replace Trots knowledge of right, but Sheff would be a bad chocie of replacement.

Second, I wanted to thank Mark for the blog. I read two blogs every day this season: Marks and Ians. Ians is for obvious reason, but Mark - and you, his community - helped me to understand a alternate mindset and thinking. It was fun. I look forward to clashing with y'all (though not TOO venemously... most of the time) over the Hot Stove and into next season.

Mike, although, I disagree about Sheff, I ABSOLUTELY agree about the salary thing. We all know we'd take more money to do the exact same thing we are currently doing if we were given the opportunity. We have to remember that these are people not machines, so putting more money into them doesn't necessarily guarentee the prize will come out of them.

oh just to let everyone know, my dad was on the YES network today!!! he was part of their coverage of the great cow harbor 10k. hehe

I don't understand why you want to get rid of Sheffield. He has played corner positions before. With an off-season and spring training, he can adapt to first base. He is much younger than his age physically because of the condition he keeps himself in. I hope the Yankees don't pick up his option so the BoSox can sign him. The Sox desperately need a power-hitting corner man, and they are likely to move Lowell's salary, switch Youkilis to third and add Sheffield or a guy like Todd Helton.

As for Torre, though as a BoSox fan I despise the Yankees, I respect Torre. Why would you want to fire him? It's not his fault that Steinbrenner and Cashman fielded such as a subpar rotation and bullpen. Just as it's not Francona's fault that he had to deal with an assortment of castoffs and minor leaguers in the rotation and bullpen due to injuries this season. The Yankees will be a weaker team without Torre's leadership.

Thanks for the blog. Really, though, George has a right to get more for his money. This particular collection is not getting it done-not just A-Rod, but Sheff, Matsui, Cano (looking like an A-Rod up and coming when you look at his 170-something average with the bases loaded), Johnson and Mr. $19 million Moose Man haven't gotten it done the last 2 years. No way should they be going out in the first series.
Biggest reason for failure? The great constructor of the late 90's is now the destroyer. Brian Cashman's moves with the pitching staff the last several years have rendered it ineffective-all the yanks were left with to pitch Games 3&4 were a 43-year old with a bad back and a choker with a reconstructed arm. Not good...My advice? Look for pitching, pitching and more pitching-and not old pitching (Kevin Brown, Johnson) or spazzos (Jeff Weaver, Farnsworth, Pavano) but solid, somewhat younger pitching. Cashman did a decent job with reconstituting the bullpen last winter, but has done an awful job acquiring starters-I would present the list, but it's too darn long. I agree Torre shouldn't take the fall, but that's life-in major league baseball.

jeff i think the pieces are there with a few moves, but torre was replaced more or less for a fresh of breath air, torre gets what he can out of them in the regular season but this isn't the group of guys he had to lead in the 90's this team needs a manager to light a fire under their *** because they are egotistical and torre doesn't supply that.....you can have shef, the guy is 39 and has been injured worse and worse each year and has done nothing in the playoffs, even if he became a decent first base glove he is not worth it and if he played the outfield anymore he would be completely useless, go ahead and take him.

Sheff has already pretty much stated he doesn't want to play 1st. He was willing to do it this year, probably because he knew it was the only way onto the post-season roster. Plus, he did it as "bait" for other teams to "show" that he was a team player and/or versatile. He won't come back to play 1st. He wants to play the outfield, and he wants the money.

I wouldn't want Sheffield as an outfielder. I would rather the BoSox resign Trot Nixon for right and find someone to platoon with him since it appears the Sox are going to deal Wily Mo Pena. I prefer a guy like Todd Helton over Sheffield. Whether the Yanks pick up his option or the BoSox sign him or not, Sheffield is going to get a healthy contract.

I just want the Yankees to go back to a pitching and defensive minded team instead of the offensive mentality they've had post 2001. Bobby Valentine once said you need at least 2 of the following 3 to win a championship: pitching, defense, and offense. The Yankees haven't had 2 of those 3 since 2001. I know they lost the series that year but I consider it a fluke, so many things had to fall perfectly in place for everything to happen how it did. I wouldn't mind seeing Sheffield, A-Rod, and Giambi gone if it means you get 3 guys who are flawless on defense and will hit above .275 or so. I wouldn't mind seeing Mussina back at a discount rate of 5-7 million as Vince has said. Sign Matsuzaka for however much you have to. That already will give you 4 capable starters without a trade being made. Trade A-Rod for a couple of young pitchers and the rotation becomes probably the strongest in the AL.

I see your point about Torre, Vince. Its true he isnt the kind of manager who.. gets rough with his players. Its true that that may very well be what the Yankees need when they slump due to their personalities.

However, I have to say.. as a Sox fan I fear Torre. I fear the Yankees more with him behind the reigns. I don't see myself being as afraid of Pinella... now I c ould easily be wrogn and Pinella will just destroy the league with the Yanks, but... Im just saying what my gut feels.

I wouldn't mind if the Sox signed Sheffield for first base, though. However, if he doesn't want to play there, then it doesn't make sense to force the issue.

Regarding A-Rod to the Angels, the BoSox are also approaching the Angels about Manny. Ervin Santana would be a definite part of either deal. And one of the Angels infield prospects (Aybar, Wood or Kendrick) would as well. The Angels are likely to include these players in an A-Rod or Manny deal because they want to make a splash in the off-season.

Piniella didn't do much with Yankees when he was manager before. Girardi is a younger version of Showalter. Why would you want either guy? If Torre goes, that is good news for the BoSox.

Ugh. Mized my metaphors and combind "behind the wheel" with "at the reigns".

The Winter will surely be fun with another Yankee-Sox battle.. this time for Santana. I wodner who I'd want for my team more.. Manny or A-Rod? My GUT says Manny, but Im biased...

Yes you'd definetly want Manny more than A-Rod...He may be a spacer but he'll always put up numbers and performs in the clutch.

I think it will be interesting to see how much money the BoSox, Yankees and Mariners throw at Matsuzaka. I imagine the Sox will also throw some dough at the Japanese closer (I can't think of his name right now). It will be an interesting off-season. The Sox will be making some key trades to get rid of salary to free up money for free agent signings, thus the reason Lowell will likely be traded, as well as Manny.

Mike Myers says that he is going to put in a good word for Timlin. I respect what Timlin has done for the Sox, especially in 2003 and 2004, but I wouldn't mind if the Sox didn't resign him and he went to the Yankees.

I look forward to the World Series, because that is when Hot Stove League talk starts. I'll be covering the winter meetings in Naples for a sports magazine for which I write. That will be interesting because it should be more active than in recent years.

I guess all the Yankees fans are in shock over the series loss. Now that I no longer have the Yankees to root against, and the BoSox did not reach the playoffs, I am ready for spring training already. I will watch the ALCS, NLCS and World Series, but I'm ready for spring training.

Here's an article written by my brother who's a diehard Red Sox fan...some of the facts are a little off but he makes a good point:

"A little help please?" If Derek Jeter didn't say those words he at least thought them as the Yankees lost their third divisional series game against the Tigers.

In years past the Yankees (more so George Steinbrenner) have had a reputation for shelling out big bucks for the players they feel will give them the best opportunity to win. The most talked about acquisition is that of Alex Rodriguez for $25,000,000 per year. With a star like Derek Jeter at short-stop, A-Rod had to move over to third base and has never been the same player since. Jeter batted .500 during the series against the Tigers, a team high. A-Rod also had a team high during the series; 4 strikeouts, 1 hit in 14 at bats, a .071 average. As if 24 errors in one season weren't enough, Rodriguez added another to the tally in the series. Once again, "A-Dog" has given New Yorkers reason to boo their own player.

Another superstar acquisition that has done more damage than good for New York is that of Jason Giambi. After stomach parasites, and slow starts threatening his position on the Yankees roster, Giambi won the 2005 Comeback Player of the Year Award. Random drug-testing normally occurs at the beginning of the season as well as at the beginning of the playoffs; any reason why Giambi's performance mysteriously fluctuates around these times? Giambi batted .125 in the series vs. Detroit.

Then there is Gary Sheffield. Sheffield spent the majority of the season on the bench pouting over his contract, what was his performance in the post season like? A .083 batting average. Add up the averages of these three "super-stars" and you get .279 (a far cry from Jeter's .500).

Offensive power isn't the only aspect of the game, and so The Yankees acquired a 6' 10" problem in Randy Johnson. A one-word summary of Johnson's time in New York: inconsistent. Every fifth day Yankees fans were left to wonder which Johnson they would see. For the series against Detroit we got to see 43-year-old Johnson. The Big Unit's ERA of 7.94 was the worst out of the four Yankees starters.

Sometimes bottomless pockets just don't do the trick.

Cashman realized the strategy of buying talent wasn't working, so for the 2005 season he decided to fill his gaps created by injuries, contract disputes or trades with his young talent. In 2005 Robinson Cano gave hope to New York fans that perhaps their farm system consisted of more than just the Devil Rays. There are incredibly high hopes for Cano in the future, but his .133 BA against Detroit shows he has a lot to learn.

For 2006 the Yanks brought up Andy Phillips and Melky Cabrera. Cabrera filled the hole in left field well, after the injury to Matsui, and had a decent regular season batting .280 with a .992 fielding percentage. Andy Phillips batted .240 this season with a .988 fielding percentage in 94 games at first base. And then the post-season came. Cabrera went stale and had a triple goose egg batting average (0-3) as did Andy Phillips (0-1). Someone please tell me why Bernie Williams is still playing baseball. He went 0-3 in the series.

What is the problem with the Yankees? Could it be that they are trying too many strategies at once, and none are working? At least they tried adapting. Maybe Cashman should take a page out of Theo's book and not do anything; at least then they wouldn't have to worry about losing in the post-season.

Jeff: Most of us (meaning the fans) DON'T want Torre to go unless there is someone better he can be replaced with. Sweet Lou is definitely NOT a better replacement, not to us anyway. I would be ok with giving Girardi a chance although I know some here disagree with me on that. But the reality of the situation is that the fans don't run the team, so Torre will probably not be back. We are just hoping that if he must go they manage to replace him with someone better, which does not include Piniella, Baker, Bowa, Showalter, etc.

Also re: Sheffield. I honestly dont understand why the Sox seemingly have no interest in re-signing Nixon. If I were a Sox fan I'd want them to keep Nixon and not go after Sheffield, as a Yankee fan of course I hope they do sign Sheff, not only cause I'm ready for him to go mess up someone else's clubhouse rather than ours, but because, well, I can see the balls bouncing off the Green Monster already rather than being caught like they would by Nixon.

So we are in agreement there but the one area where I do beg to differ w/you is that I don't think Sheff would be any better for Boston or NY in the infield than he would in the outfield. I just think the negatives outweigh the positives no matter where you play him.

For the BA's of Giambi, Sheffield and Rodriguez he added up the actual averages instead of averaging them together, in which case it would have been .088

Great job this year and looking forward to your writings in the hot stove league and in 07

a24: The FANS all want Nixon resigned. We just dont think the FO will do it.. and I especiallty dont want Sheff to replace him. BTW, you have Trot in the wrong position in your post. Manny deals with the Green Monster... not Trot.

right now, I have to say.. the best manager in the game is Leyland. He has done WONDERS with the Tigaers and can yell at his players and light a fire when its needed. Too bad Detroit will lock him up for a long time to come.

Worst Manager? Ozzie. I hate that guy.

Interesting Alex! I agree with the trying too many stratgies at once part in a sense. IMO it's not so much that theyre trying too many strategies at once, but the new youth movement small ball thing we're trying now is conflicting with all the superstar sluggers we have signed over the past few seasons. We just need to work on purging our roster a bit of some of the "wait for the 3-run homer guys" (that is precisely why I want Figgins) and adding some more small-ball, run-manufacturing guys. We have both extremes on our 2006 team and we just need to achieve a little bit better of a balance between the 2 for next season.

The only part of the article I vehemently disagree with is that for a rookie, who had a disastrous weeklong callup in 05, I would say that Melky's season was much more than just decent. When we as Yankee fans look for a ray of light in the disappointing way the season ended, Melky is that ray of light. We got way above and beyond what we expected from him and his performance not only goes way above and beyond being decent, but it is also highly representative of what we want and need to do in the future.

3 Cheers for the Melkman!!

Yeah my brother doesn't quite understand the way of Melky and how much he meant to the team.

a24: The FANS all want Nixon resigned. We just dont think the FO will do it.. and I especiallty dont want Sheff to replace him.

Ahh okay! Makes sense, similar to how Yankee fans feel about the difference between what they want re: Torre and what the FO will do.

My bad about the Green Monster. I should have just said "the wall," because I remember Sheff misplaying lots of hits as a Yankee that ended up bouncing off of the wall. Whenever one of those said bad plays happened, my feeling was always, Nixon catches those balls.

I agree, agastald. I want Nixon to return as well - at least on a 1 or 2-year deal, and in a platoon situation. The Sox need guys like Nixon, Varitek and Loretta (who I hope will be resigned as well). These are professionals that play the game with heart. I like Lowell, too, but I have a feeling he will be gone. The Yankees are missing players with heart. I agree that, though Sheffield is appealing with the power production he can provide, he would not be a good addition to the clubhouse, which will be cleansed if Manny is traded. If the Sox spend $13 to $14 million per season on a free agent (which I imagine is What Sheffield will command), I would rather it be on a younger power hitter, or a pitcher like Matsuzaka, Schmidt or Zito.

It will also be interesting to see how much the Sox and Yankees lean on the players they have developed. Can the Yankees afford to give Cabrera a full season in left field? Can the Sox afford to take a chance on Pedroia full time at second (I would rather he be used in a utility role like Cora was this season)? The Sox will definitely have to use younger players to fill holes in the bullpen, the infield (Youkilis and maybe Pedroia) and the outfield (Murphy as an extra outfielder) since their payroll will likely remain in the same range. Perhaps the Yankees will start to rely more on thir farm system and give those guys a chance.

The Yankees could certainly afford to give Melky a full year in left, but what do you do with Matsui? I think they should go through 2007 with Melky as the 4th outfielder, then have him start full time in left in 2008 with Matsui moving over to right.

I really hope that the Yankees don't fire Joe Torre. I agree with you that Torre shouldn't have to tell his team that these games are important. The offense was just cold. The pitching was good but not good enough to win. We could of won game two but no one got that big hit. I really don't want A-rod to be a yankee next year. I don't have a problem with him it's just in the playoffs he gets COLD!!! He puts way to much pressure on himself and he can never admit when he's in a slump. And in the last game everyone was swinging at the first pitch. They wouldn't let the pitcher work. I think the yankees gave up those last two games because thats how it looked like they were playing. And if Lou becomes manager I will be so disappointed because all he will do is yell and he has BAD anger problems. I just hope next year will be different and maybe we can finally get number 27.

I stick by 2008 being a yankees world championship and i just said it on the show. This is of course, provided they keep the chips in place.

Cabrera in an outfield spot with damon and either abreu or matsui (depending on abreu's 2nd year as a yankee and matsui's response to surgery over a span of a year). Now you have a solid defensive outfield and guys that can do different things in addition to a homegrown. Cano will still be headed into his prime, jeter will be jeter, whoever plays third will hopefully be a brosius ,and we should have solid defense all across the field with the move at first...which will not be sheff....giambi just has to slug and take pitches which is not a lot to ask if he becomes a full time dh next year, and our pitching staff could be wang, matsuzaka, ervin santana in his prime, hughes and clippard. That is absolutely filthy and the pen would be hopefully rivera, with brentcox, farnsy, bruney proctor and myers or another lefty. If any of these guys don't perform next year (minus brentcox who will be a rookie) then they will surely be replaced by a stud whether it is a trade or otherwise.

That is a filthy filthy team, with youth, veteran presense and to me, a correct offensive approach, esp ic figgins is at third or first, along with a solid defense, great power pitching and a great bullpen. The only ? is catcher, as I don't knwo who the transitional catcher between posada and our teenaged stud will be.

with no a rod, sheffield, mussina, and johnson and with the influx of homegrowns that have played through the minors together (like the 96 core) and veterans with great personalities (like the remaining yankees) the personality in the clubhouse will be great as well, i'm telling you, if that is our '08 team we will be unstoppable. They will have an offense still with power, but that can also put the ball in play anywhere on the field, take pitches and steal steal steal and hit and run. That offense would be able to do it all, scrappy and powerful. The pitching, which is assuming hughes clippard and matsuzaka are what every scout says they are would be wonderful and the bullpen should be solid like they have been

Vince I think with that analysis, you and I could co-manage the Yankees.

hahah oh yeah my final point: Me and andrew should manage the yankees, it would be a breath of fresh air and Jaret Wright would be washing uniforms in game 4, not starting.

I'm still hoping that Steinbrenner's comments were made in the heat of the moment (we all know George!) and Cashman can talk him out of firing Joe. I, too, remember the revolving door years, and getting Pinella would be a return to that mind-set.

Torre is the ONLY mangaer that has been successful under Steinbrenner for more than 1 year. Blaming Torre because the team had no "fire" is saying that the players are all rookies that don't know how they're supposed to act. If you have a young team like Detroit, lighting a fire with a guy like Leyland is good. If you have a veteran team like the Yankees, the rah-rah stuff has to come from players not the manager.

Preparing for our Yankees Internet Radio show. It is year-round. I'll be on tonight along with 2 other club members and Dave Pinto of Baseball Musings.com. Feel free to listen in.

www.lvyankeefanclub.com, click on radio and follow instructions.

this time i shall listen because i owe it to mike and i always get held up with something..is it 8 o clock mike?

6 to 8.

An interesting development. Just received an e-mail from an editor of a sports magazine for which I write. The winter meetings are in Orlando, where I live. He wants me to write a piece on the workings of a turnaround, focusing on the Yankees and Red Sox and getting into the minds of Epstein and Cashman regarding the pressures, the thought processes, etc. Should be interesting interviews. I look forward to it since I have a lot of respect for Epstein and Cashman.

lol Mike they refer to you as the stats guy.

Why is this guy shouting?

Poor Joe, I am torn between wanting him here or wanting a new start. He is like a father figure to NYC. I just don't know.

Look at this photo

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l13/Gutch220/Joe.jpg

I think it's interesting to hear all the ideas about who to get and who to let go. Everybody says get rid of the high-priced prima donnas and get solid, clutch players to replace them like we had in the 90's. It's not that easy. A few reminders:

Paul O'Neill, Scott Brosius, and Tino Martinez were average to good players who had not proven themselves especially great in pressure or playoff situations until they came to the Yankees. Who knew they'd turn out to be "warriors" when we got them?

Jason Giambi, Gary Sheffield, and Alex Rodriguez all had proven themselves not only as great players, but in the playoffs before they came to the Yankees. Who knew they'd disappear in the playoffs for us?

There have been plenty of other free-agent signings and trade acquisitions of all kinds that have either been above or below expectations, and there have some home-grown players that worked out and plenty that didn't. The point is, it's easy to second-guess after the fact, but nobody knows how any particular player will react to a new team/situation. It's easy to look at a guy like Figgons and say "he's just what we need" (and maybe he is), but you never know till you have him for a year or two. And it's easy to say get "good chemistry" guys, but there are plenty of good chemistry guys who never sniff the playoffs because they're not productive players.

Nature of show, you want to hear some shouting, wait until my friend, Josh "The Yankee Truth" comes on.

Yup. My nickname.

meaning....they call me stat-o-matic

I can't believe they are thinking about firing Joe Torre. Remember the 80's, anyone. Is George Steinbrenner off his rocker! He cannot field, pitch, and hit for the team. This is the most rediculous thing I have ever seen as a Yankee fan. Worst then Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps. Does he not see what they have done the past 12 seasons. Let's compare: 1982 and about 1'000 managers to 1995, 1 playoff apperance and no postseason series wins. Since Joe Torre took over in 1996, 4-2 in world series apperances not to mention he has been in the postseason every year since he has managed the team. Lou Pinella, are you kidding me. As a kid during the 80's following the Yankees Sweet Lou didn't do anything for the Yanks. HE ******. This is a Traversty of Justice. JOE TORRE IS THE MAN.

For next year... OUT-Sheff, A-Rod (PRESSURE), Moose (slow fastball), Wright, Lidle, Myers, Dotel, Farnsworth....IN-Zito,lefthanded reliever, Melky in left field, DH, Matsui as left field, DH, 4th, 5th starting pitcher-type
Stirtze will be back to solidify bullpen. In fairness to Cashman, he did pull off the deal of the year when he replaced Sheff with a better player in right and gave up almost nothing in the process. To move forward, the Yanks don't necessarily need to change the manager but their approach to acquiring players which btide21 noted has already begun taking place-Cashman and Co. are now just paying for the sins of the past...In memeoriam I would like to remember Manager Torre, a masterful manager of egotistic and temeperamental

superstars-absolutely NOBODY could have as good a job as he has done with the team over the past 11 years-the telltale sign is if you look at the times of turmoil during which the Yanks always pulled out looking great and winning their division (exc. 1997)-Great job, Joe!!!!

Mike I must protest the playing of Fall Out Boy on the radio show.

Hey I hear Mike's voice now.

MIKE why wont it work, when i click having trouble listening it says the page cannot be displayed....and zito is an idiot

ok now its working, which one is you?

Try Internet Explorer. It doesn't work with Firefox and Opera for me.

He's the guy on the phone, with the deep Al Pacino voice.

the one talkgin right now?

Torre has gone through some many players as a manager and he has stood the test of time. By the Way I am only a Yankee Fan and will not root for the Muts. I am not just a New York fan and will not root for the Muts. The Yankees will be better than the Muts no matter what.

I am a die hard yankee fan and I still don't mind rooting for the mets, maybe its living in half redsox country but all the mets fans im friends with are very civil

Al Pacino? They might switch my nickname from Stat-o-matic to the Godfather.

Hey, he mentioned us.

mike has a heavy dialect, i don't mind it though....haha yeah he did, good job mike

Maybee so yankeevmm but, ever since 1986 when the MUTS were better than the Yankees and every single one of my friends talked **** about the Yankees I vowed never to root fot the MUTS no matter what. I am still going to stick to my word. THE MUTS STILL ****!!!!!!!!!!!

I listen through Winamp. You can also listen through Media Player, I think. TPS radio? (I'm trying to remember the initials...TPS? carries the show).

Feel free to IM them through AIM instant messenger at LVYankee Radio or use the comment box on our website screen.

OH!!!!!!!!! ANOTHER CHEAP SHOT AT PAVANO!!!!!

I LOVE YOU MIKE!!!!

Vince, please let me know when they stop playing Fall Out Boy so I can turn mute off.

Thanks. Hey, I don't pick the music. LOL

My friend, Josh "the Yankee Truth" Imboden comes on soon. You want to be entertained and hear someone with a lot of spit and fire, stay tuned. Josh is one of a kind. A good guy, but God broke the mold after He made him.

I thought Dave Pinto's suggestion of bringing Buck back as a bench coach was very interesting. What do you think?

**** Mike where do you get your stats?

i am still in shock...

mrschappert mentions Sturtze. I don't see it. Sturtze will be 37 and coming off of major surgery. You can think of someone, but you have to look at the birth certificate too.

LOL "turn your speakers down when Josh comes on because he will blow them out".

I love this radio show. Can you please slip in another cheap shot at Carl Pavano before it ends.

God gave me superglue for brain cells, I guess.

time to face reality...

This Josh guy sounds awesome. I better not be disappointed.

He's one-of-a-kind. One of his relatives was the guy who designed the Yankee "hat in bat" logo. An artist.

He is on now.

That's awesome. I have a huge poster with that logo right above my computer.

Votes of confidence for Joe:
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061008&content_id=1705463&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

I thought your club president was on now? My ears aren't getting blown out yet.

ok sorry ive been listening but i was playing video games.....has anyone brought up mussina?

Vince plays video games?

/86 was before my time so i have no hatred for the mets in that respect

The club prez was on. Josh is the last 20 minutes or so. I think you may be 20 minutes behind on the show. I think instead of ending at 8 you might end at 820. Keep listening.

haha yeah i was playing the show and randy was busy going 7 innings 2er and me winning 5-2...giambi 2 2 run hrs

Yeah I think I may be behind for some reason.

this is a rod as a whole, it'd just be better for both sides if he was traded, particularly to the angels.

Yes, the rival in the AL we can NOT beat. That doesn't make any sense for the team at all. Strengthen the rival that is their Achilles heel.

A viable option in the NL would make a lot more sense.

That's one rumor going around, Angel. Alex for Aramis Ramirez of the Cubs. Just a rumor.

angel if a rod went to the angels i don't think they would improve against us. They beat us because of fundamentals, contact hitters, slashing, clutch hitting and solid defense, a rod fits none of those characteristics. Taking figgins, a proven yankee killer away along with ervin santana a solid starter, and i think getting a rod to the angels not only improves us, but improves us against the angels

KEEP A-ROD, he's a 40/120/100 player, and his defense will get better. It would be a stupid emotional decision to trade him.

=============================

This just in!!!

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l13/Gutch220/Boss.jpg

=============================

Joe's coming back

a rod straight up for aramis? That is not equal, i would hope a starter or a lot fo high prospects would be included

I'd love to get Shields or Donnelly as well.

if we can get a rod for santana, shields and figgins i would take it in a heartbeat and eat most of a rods contract

OMG YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YET ANOTHER SHOT AT CARL PAVANO!!!!!!!!!

I love this show.

or at least some of his contract

Figgens?? Who did exactly what people what to get rid of Arod for? Disappearing against us during the post season last year. Makes even less sense.

i know the angels are trying to shop figgins....figgins emerged in the last couple of games in that series and against the whitesox, he also adds a complete additional dimension to the yankees offense and is a super cairo, figgins is one of the more underrated players in all of baseball

Josh sounds COMPLETELY stoned...

What the **** is he talking about Mike?

Nope...that is just him being depressed. He is a very fiery, passionate fan though!

Yeah I'm kind of figuring that out.

Vince, it will definitely be interesting to see what the Angels do - considering that they want to make a big splash in the post-season, and that there is a strong chance they will want to acquire either Manny or A-Rod. Santana is a definite part of either deal. One of the infield prospects as well. I know the BoSox are high on Scot Shields. It will be very interesting to see the Sox and Yankees competing yet again for players in the off-season.

Andrew, I wrote on 8/28 about Randy and Alex. I don't know how accurate I was, you can see for yourself. Here is a link to the page. Scroll down to the 8/28 column. You can e-mail me if you wish.

http://www.lvyankeefanclub.com/columns/

ow!!!!!!!!!!!

Mike Mussina $17 million

Jaret Wright's $7 million,

Chien-mei Wang $300 thousand

That Josh guy was excellent.

yeah jeff....i can see santana going to the redsox, he seems like a yankee hater for some reason

It was an interesting radio show. Wonder if there are any Internet radio shows that focus on the Yankees and the Sox. Now that would be interesting radio!

Why is everyone being so nice to someone who was such a rude ******* here yesterday?

I dont get that. Thanks a lot.

Santana would become a Red Sox hater if the Yankees got him. I prefer the Sox get Santana than sign Schmidt or Zito (though I wouldn't mind either one of those guys in the Sox rotation). I just prefer younger pitchers, and Santana fits the bill. I imagine the Yankees want the same thing - young pitchers who have upside rather than older guys who may or may not pan out in NYC.

NYY Angel, you obviously have not spent much time debating. As Sox and Yankees fans, we will definitely get on each other, and that is fine, as long as it doesn't get personal. Vince and I and Vik and I have had our share of debates, and it has not gotten personal. That is what is great about the BoSox-Yankees rivalry, and sports in general. These blogs give sports fans a forum to debate and discuss. You don't have to respond if you don't like what you see.

Glad you listened. We don't take the offseason off. We keep it up all during the hot stove league.

Yeah I was cool with Jeff on the Red Sox blog earlier in the year.

Your surmisal of me being rude is debatable as well. Just because someone says something that you don't agree with doesn't mean it's rude. I didn't like some of the comments that Yankees fans made on the BoSox blog, but they were just stating their opinions. The only time a comment is rude is when it is a personal attack, such as Fagan, which is uncalled for. I did lay it on the Yankees yesterday on this blog. Now it's done and it's time to focus on the off-season, just as Yankees fans would have done on the BoSox blog if the roles were reversed.

Hi Alex. If you missed our show and want to hear it, it will be available for download if you have Ipods. We have a lot of people on a list who download the show for later.

You got personal with me, when you twisted my words to attack yankee fans yesterday.

Whatever, you guys have your debates. I can't see how someone who has that much hatred towards a team can possibly be objective.

See you next season.

Sweet you mean like for podcasts?

Angel, feel free to listen to our show in the offseason.

Exactly, ALex.

I don't hate the Yankees. I do have a strong dislike for them, which is required as a BoSox fan. :) I don't hate anything or anyone. I'm a laid back person. No pent up anger here! As a professional writer, I am objective when I write a sports feature. On my BoSox blog, and posting on sites like these, I can express my own opinion. I think you are confusing my with someone else. I never twisted anyone's words. But if I offended you, I apologize. It wasn't intentional.

Angel I think you meant Thomas, not Jeff.

Can Giambi be traded?

he's no d rein, who fully enjoys twisting my words to come off as contradictory when the reality is they were two completely different situations. But at least d rein is not insane and creditless, like fagan

You'll have to give it some time to be available. A few hours.

Go to www.lvyankeefanclub.com, click on radio and you will see directions. One will be listen, the other will be podcast.

If not available, e-mail radio@lvyankeefanclub.com and request it.

If you click on hosts, you will see the hosts of the show and a description of them, as well as a short description of the regular contributors like me.

It's possible Lola, but it wouldnt be easy with the albatross contract.

lola, i doubt he will, he could, he has no no trade clause, but does anybody want a former roid head dh for 16 million a year?

Not to mention Giambi turns 36 in January.

"A walking encyclopedia of Yankees knowledge, Mike provides statistical data to the Ty and Uncle Joe..."

Hahahahahahahaha

It is going to be weird to come home from work monday, turn on the TV and realize there is no Yankee game. now I have to wait ~170 days and go through the hot stove. For some reason I think George will let Joe finish out his contract to give him a proper send-off. Lord knows he deserves it. Quickly firing him <48 hours afterwards is a bit hasty in my opinion. Upgrading the pitching is the first priority. I hope they keep A-Rod. I think once the dust settles, there will be more rational decisions.

"A walking encyclopedia of Yankees knowledge, Mike provides statistical data to the Ty and Uncle Joe..."

Hahahahahahahaha

Posted by: marksman@ny-yankees.net | October 8, 2006 08:31 PM

Well, I do....

I think they meant the Ty and Uncle Joe show...some typos there....

I'm on here right now because I miss chatting about baseball, and the BoSox blog has been dead for awhile with the extreme disappointment and frustration of falling out of the race. I'm still getting some traffic on my own blog, but it will likely be slow until the off-season deals start happening. Of course, like Vince feels about getting the pulse of the Yankees main rival, I also like getting a feel for what Yankees fans think about their team, the Red Sox and baseball in general. There are definitely some jerks on this site as there are on the BoSox site, but for the most part I think people on both sides (Sox and Yankees) don't mind debating and talking about baseball with each other as long as it doesn't resort to maniacal rants and raves like Fagan, who is now banned from the BoSox blog as well.

No I was laughing at the "walking encyclopedia of Yankees knowledge" part.

lol that is funny....the steinbrenner relationship with torre kind of reminds me of the president and david palmer the former president two seasons ago in 24

Yankees are fine. I would only be worried if we finished 12 games out of 1st in 3rd place with a 120 million payroll..now that is bad and sad........

Well, I am....

has he been? that's good to hear....this is going to be the longest offseason of my life because it was the quickest knockout that i didn't expect

Chris Carpenter just threw 35 pitches in the first inning and gave up 2 runs.

Haha, Sam. Debating about that is a fruitless cycle. Sox fans know that the teamwould have fared much better if a bulk of that $120 million was healthy. I already made my point about the Yankees yesterday, which obviously was a strong opinion that irked some people. We'll see what happens as both teams venture into the Hot Stove League. Both teams have a lot of decisions to make and holes to fill.

Jeff, I take it you are the one who I-Med our show. I hear rumors of Boston wanting to dump Coco and try to get Andruw Jones.

cardinals will choke themselves out of the playoffs.....which will be good because they would just be a spot in the nlcs and not contend anyway

Unfortunately i think this will become a more intelligent but similar offseason to 2003 when both teams went into an arms race against each other like a chess match....this time u won't see guys like pavano and clement involved though, it'll be more like santana and matsuzaka...if the sox were smart they'd chase lackey but i don't know that the angels would trade both those guys.

I have the jump on...between the baseball game and the Steelers/Chargers.

I feel Joe is a great Manager and should stay. My only concern is at the trade dead line he felt they needed more hitting and the pitching was OK. Wang and Mussina are their only quality starters with any history. Pitching has been the problem since Andy and Roger went to Huston.

Yeah, I e-mailed the show with the A-Rod and Manny comment. Good show. Enjoyed the last guy especially. The Sox have so many decisions to make that it is mentally exhaustive thinking about it. They might deal Crisp in a package with Hansen and another prospect for Jones. Or, if the Sox deal Manny (which I am certain this off-season they will), they might sign Lee or Soriano to play left, still trade Crisp in a package for Jones (or move Crisp to left and sign Torii Hunter, if the Twins don't pick up his option. It all hinges on Manny. I hope they deal him early so it doesn't linger. But now, since the Yankees might trade A-Rod, the Sox might have to take less and pay more of Manny's salary in a Manny trade.

Lost Wells at that time too. Had to replace 3/5 of the rotation. The other was Weaver for Brown. Ugh both ways, there.

Thanks for listening, Jeff. I was on earlier in the show. My friend Josh is something else, but he does bleed Yankee pinstripes.

I think the Sox should ask for Santana and Orlando Cabrera in a deal with the Angels (if the Angels refuse to surrender Aybar, Wood or Kendrick). I like Lackey, but I can't see the Angels dealing him. Of course, they might prefer to keep Santana and trade Lackey.

Sound like Al Pacino...I still am laughing over that....

Well you did, or at least I thought you did when I first heard you.

A-Rod for Manny would be big news, wouldn't it? I think there is a very slim chance of that deal happening, but it would be interesting. There is also talk that the Jays are shopping Vernon Wells, but he is unlikely to be traded to an AL East foe.

mike where'd u say u were from, philly?....I believe a rod will be gone more than manny, manny being traded is one of those things I won't fathom until it happens...Jeff, you think loretta AND lowell will both be gone?

Eastern PA....near Allentown.

the jays would be complete ****** to trade vernon, the guy is a 5 tool player, he is my favorite non yankee.

lol unfortunately getting manny would solve nothing, we already have a dh that can't play defense, his name is giambi.

oo ok, yeah you def scream pennsylvania when you talk....that is until you listen to the topic, then it is confusing.

Which Al Pacino, the Godfather one or the Scarface one?

Vince don't knock us PA talkers.

LOL if I say the Scarface one, Mike would probably kill me.

Right, mayn?

Dave Pinto of Baseballmusings.com had an interesting suggestion on the show. Nothing against Mazzilli, but he suggested bringing Showalter in as bench coach. What are your thoughts on that? Fire away.

I tol you to tellem you was in a sanitarium, not sanitation.

The BoSox should trade manny and get good players for him before he gets too old/injured and loses value. Ortiz is a DH so he'll be able to play forever, which is what I think Giambi will be next year....
...how about trading Melky and Randy for Pujols? :) crazy talk.

I hope not. I think the Sox will deal Lowell and his contract for a set-up man (perhaps Scott Linebrink since San Diego needs a third baseman). Then the Sox would move Youkilis to third and sign a power bat to play first. I hope the Sox resign Loretta for one season and use Pedroia in a utility role much like Cora was used this season. But I imagine that Pedroia will be the everyday second baseman next season for the Sox.

If the Sox keep Manny, I won't shed any tears. He's obviously a great player. And if the Sox traded Crisp in a package for Jones, that would give the Sox a 3-4-5 combo that was missing this season. Pitching is key for the Sox just like the Yankees. I like the Schilling, Beckett and Papelbon trio. Not so sure about Wakefield. If the Sox don't sign Matsuzaka, Zito or Schmidt, or if they don't get Santana in a Manny deal, I think they will sign Vicente Padilla, Ted Lilly or Gil Meche as a No. 4 or No. 5 guy. Daniel Bard, Bowden and Buchholz are not ready, and Lester is likely out for 2007. They need depth, so they don't have to run guys like Jarvin, Pauley, Snyder and Jason Johnson out to the mound.

Of course, the Yankees will be considering all of the aforementioned free agents, as will other teams, so starting pitching will be expensive this off-season.

16 million a year?

Posted by: yankeevmm@yahoo.com | October 8, 2006 08:29 PM

more like $21 million.

I wonder what would have happened if the Players Union had allowed ARod to restructure his contract and get traded to Boston instead of NY?

Manny for ARod would be a bad trade for several reasons, the main one being that it adds one more person to an already crowded outfield for the Yankees. (Matsui, Damon, Abreu, Melky, Bernie{possibly}, plus Manny? Who plays?) Plus, it leaves a void at 3rd that would still need to be filled.

Add into that fact that Boston and NY usually don't trade with each other. (I mean, after the Babe why would Boston be so stupid, right? lol)

Yeah, I was just kidding about A-Rod for Manny. I would rather have Manny than A-Rod, personally. Of course, I like the idea of dealing Manny and getting a younger player for left field (like Lee). I can't remember the last time to Sox and Yankees traded with each other. Anyone else know?

BTW, Vince, I listened to your radio show today. It was fun. You made great points about Monday Night Football, and I loved you Yankee tirade.

Not sure your roommate really added much to the show today though. I guess he was too busy playing with the bell or something.

lola i realized i made that mistake right after i posted it haha...mike what is your distaste for mazilli? I didn't think baltimore was his fault and he seems a lot like torre, am i missing something?

Rule #1: Don't help your biggest rival.

Rule #2: Don't help anybody in your division. (Which is why so many of us Yankee fans were so upset about some of the "trades" that were going on between Boston and other division members this season.)

I am trying to think of something more recent than Lyle for Cater in early 1972.

Vince, I'll have to listen sometime. You'll have to fill me in. A little rough right now with my severance and soon-to-be job searching.

Is it available for download?

hahaah rob im cracking up at the bell comment.....not to sound conceited or anything but a lot of people feel that way about us...to his defense, he is absolutely amazing at the technical part of the show like the board and computer aspects so he does have more to concentrate and offers more behind the scenes, i am the brunt of the knowledge and opinion. Yeah, MNF is really starting to hurt my feelings....since i was recovering from sickness, the yankee tirade almost gave me an asthma attack

Jeff, does it really look like they are going to move Paperweight, er, Papelbon to the rotation? He was so good as a closer, why mess with that?

No distaste for Maz....just that a guest on our show mentioned that he thought Showalter as bench coach for the Yanks would be a good move...wonder what your thoughts are on that.

Perhaps you can have a BoSox-Yankees segment on your show, Vince. That would lead to all sorts of calls and very entertaining radio. I liked listening to Josh on the other show today. He reminded me of a the type of Yankees fan that would be depicted in a Hollywood movie. Very entertaining!

mike, unfortunately no, I don't believe so....it is every sunday 4-5 on www.wqaq.com, i usually post the site every sunday around 3:30 so you can just check back here. It is not primarily a yankee or even sports show, but we always cover football updates and i'm sure any major yankee or redsox moves i'll offer an opinion on throughout the off season. If you don't get around to it, i completely understand, i didn't get to listen to your show until tonight anyway.

Was Mike stanley or mendoza in a deal or just FA pickups?

It looks like Papelbon will be in the rotation, which I prefer. I think he can be a 20-game winner, much like Derek Lowe was after moving from the closer's role into the rotation. I still wish the Sox would have resigned Lowe instead of signing Clement. Anyway, I think the Sox will pursue the Japanese closer, or Gagne or Lidge.

Seriously, I am not at the least bit worried about the Yankees next year. They will have a playoff caliber team, Geroge and Cash will make sure of that and that is all us fans can ask for, a team with the chance to make the playoffs, which we have for the past 11 seasons which is really unheard of in baseball...a lot of teams whish they would have the Yankee "problems"....

I think just pickups and not a straight deal.

I'm certain that Mendoza was a free agent signing. I think Stanley was as well. I liked Mike Stanley. Good guy to have on the team.

jeff, I actually did intend on having my friend ryan on the show when i wanted to cover a yankees sox segment, obviously when the deals start being made i'll probably do it. Ryan is a major major sox knowledge based fan, but he is also very objective which is why we remain friends.

Last year before i had my own show i used to guest host my other friend who is a big yankee fan's show....his co host was a huge sox fan, that used to create some fun entertainment both in the studio and with the phones...the cohost's dad had to call once because we were double teaming him haha.....whoa that sounded wrong

I would love if Lidge went to Boston. Here's to many, many Jason Isringhausen-eque outings in the future!

Josh is on my IM right now.

http://www.electricartists.com/scarface/soundboard.html

There's a scarface soundboard Andrew...enjoy.

I think Lidge will rebound. He's too good of a closer. I did a story last year on Barry Larkin, who now lives here in Orlando, and he said that Lidge was the best relief pitcher he faced in his career. I like the idea of signing Gagne to an incentive-laced deal, if he would agree to it.

Btw, I'm glad that there is no confirmed news about Torre being fired (unless I missed something.) A decision like that shouldn't be made so soon after a season-ending loss. They definitely need to wait a few days and let cooler heads make the decision.

Jeff, I for one am glad Boston didn't resign Derek Lowe. It was a mistake on their part that made me happy.

lol I've seen that Scarface sound board thing. It's pretty **** funny.

ditto on lowe, even if he was a self proclaimed "mental gidget"

was Wade Boggs a free-agent?

I think getting Linebrink would be key since he could step in as a closer if they acquire Lidge or sign Gagne, and either guy falls on his face. I hear where Mike Myers wants to lure Timlin to the Yankees.

Yeah, it didn't make sense letting Lowe go since they let Pedro go. Pitching is why the Sox won in 2004, and it will be the key element of them returning to the post-season in 2007. They will have more disappointment if they don't have depth in the rotation.

If we get timlin i'm gonna open fire on somebody. Timlin is clearly in the twilight of his career, that would be an awful decision that the tampa offices probably would love to make.

Anybody remember the story about how the sox and yankees gm got drunk at a bar once and on a napkin they agreed to a dimaggio for williams deal then they woke up in the morning and realized they were both insane....i wonder how that would have effected history

Since we self destructed early this year, I just wondered if Red Sox and other teams' fans could get a hobby now until next spring and leave us and this blog alone for at least a little private time of conversation and mourning. And, I'm sorry that your blogs have turned out to be an abysmal failure, Jeff, but give them time. You seem to attract enemies and annoy people everywhere you go. If you could just work on that, maybe your blogs will get at least one or two others to talk to you over the long bitter approaching winter which you sox fans are so use to enduring. You see, Jeff, we Yankee fans are not as accustomed to losing over the centuries as you guys are! Also, these prolonged conversations between you and Yankeevvm are starting to bore the dogie doo out of me, fellows. Sorry, if no one else agrees with me, because I DO think the comment the latter made earlier today showed a lot of baseball knowledge and insight when he wrote explaining why Joe Torre was fired: simply "for a fresh of breath air". (Honest. That's what he typed verbatim.) This comment is as well worded and makes as much sense as anything else either of them has written since I've been reading them. For now, I think we all need some time to suffer and reflect and let the dust settle before we begin to fix blame and start throwing millions of dollars all around that none of us personally have on such gnat brained trades and schemes which show we haven't the slighest idea of what we're talking about. I loved Alex since he first came here and I loved this year's team and rooted for them all the disappointing way. That's all a fan can do, so I'll mourn a lot more this autumn and winter, and I'll be back in the spring, as positive as ever! Good day.

Is it bad to be addicted to "Stairway to Heaven"?

I'm sorry if somebody already posted this, or if you already read it. It is from Pete Abe's blog. My comments are in parenthesis.

"If Steinbrenner really wants to improve the Yankees, this is what you do:

* Let Sheff go. He's all about himself. (I'm okay with this, just a little nervous about him going to Boston.)

* Let Mussina go. He's all about himself and while an entertaining personality, a chemistry killer. (You know, reading this made me think of all the times he blamed his defense for him grooving pitches over the middle of the plate. Maybe Pete's right.)

* Trade A-Rod for anything, preferably a starting pitcher. He just doesn't fit here. (Only make this trade if you can get 3-4 other players out of it.)

* Play Melky in center. He deserves a shot.

* DH Giambi full time. He can't stay healthy when he plays the field.

* Teach Damon how to play first in spring training. Why not? He'd be willing. (This answered my question about what to do with Damon if Melky plays center. It is intriguing, to say the least. But unless they sign a good 1B in the off-season, it is an option worth exploring.)

* Sign Zito or Matsuzaka. They need another starter, two really.

* Keep Torre and his coaching staff. The Yankees were a fun, aggressive, well-drilled team for 162 games. Three games doesn't change that. They caught a bad break, in a weird way, when Sheff and Matsui got healthy enough to play.

(I am a firm believer of letting a winning coach or manager finish out his contract. Let Torre have 1 more year. If they still make an early exit, or, God forbid, don't make the playoffs, simply don't renew his contract.)

Apparently, dcapici is the Fagan of the Yankees blog. Anyway, I agree Vince. Timlin is not an effective reliever anymore. I imagine that Foulke will exercise his player option and return to the Sox in 2007. He did pitch well in September. He would be ideal if he is healthy, but I hope they cut ties with Timlin.

Boggs was a FA.

Yes, it was around 1946 or 1947 between Larry McPhail and Tom Yawkey---both of whom liked their booze.

Get a life? do you see anybody else on this blog severely rude and disgruntled over a game? Nope, just you, and yeah, from the looks of it, you're alone on your hatred of jeff and your distaste for my opinions....why you don't think it is credible to make the comment that firing torre would be a breath of fresh air to the yankee organization considering they went through the motions for their last 13 or so post season games under torre and it would be their first managerial change in 10 yrs along with the understanding torre is a players manager and clearly did not light any fire under their *** or make any sort of post season decision to spark his team is beyond me...

torre's system worked for a group of hungry young guys with delicate persona's and a few spark plugs already on his roster to get the team going, the entire dynamic of their team is different now and torre is not fitting into it, they don't need to be coddled

I remember hearing where there were a few time swhen the Sox and Yankees discussed a DiMaggio for Williams deal. Must have been during those drunken meetings.

and i don't recall you having a license in "being nosey and patrolling public blog forum traffic" so until you supply that you can swim in your own pool of misery

dcapici: Look at the secondary title of the blog. It reads "Baseball, Bombers and life on the beat with a Yankees scribe." Notice that the first line says 'baseball?' That would include talk of other teams as well as the Yankees. I have no problem with this, as long as talk of other teams doesn't dominate. Just my opinion.

Jeff: It's not fair to compare dcapici with fagan. ****, it's not fair to compare ANYONE with fagan.

Yeah, Fagan is in a category of his own. He's in his 60s, but he has the maturity level of an infant. He must have a lot of time on his hands to concoct his long rants and raves.

Adding to Rob's comment, when you're a Sox fan, talking about what the Yankees are doing is as much a part of a blog as talking about what the Sox are doing. Though some Yankees fans won't admit it, they are equally curious and drawn to what the Sox are doing as well, otherwise it would not be such a heated rivalry.

Torre has shown no on-field passion. Why did he not fire the team up in game 3, with the supposed missed tag at 3rd by A-Rod -- get out there an argue the call!. Just a small example, but shows lack of passion and fire. Now I am not saying that Lou is the best choice, but the Yanks need to show fire and spirit.

God, I am trying to imagine Fagan as a father or grandfather and am shuddering in my shoes.

Yeah, I can't picture him being the warm and lovable type. I imagine he berates his grandchildren like he does the people on these blogs.

Tommy, you make a great point. That tag at 3rd WAS a big-time blown call by the umps. There was no reason for Torre to keep his butt in the dugout on that. What is he afraid of, that he'll get thrown out of the game? Doesn't he have 2 former managers on his staff? Can't they handle the job for 1 game?

I am trying to imagine fagan as a human being and my imagination just stops.

tommy, my sentiments exactly, I loved Torre, even in 96 with the limited knowledge i had, i still liked him, but he has shown his age the last two years and ur right, nothing in this series at all from him. No hit and runs with our few base runners, no steal attempts (if ur not advancing them with the bat, try and force the issue) no argued calls of which there were plenty of missed ones, nothing. This goes back to 2004 and the schilling ankle start. No bunts, nothing, they let an immobile pitcher dominat them rather than try to make it was uncomfortable as possible. In 96, and the rest of the 90's the players were doing all of that, stealing, bunting, hit and running, exploting mistakes or disadvantages, the torre we have now just doesn't fit this team. It is like a woman content with a nice guy as opposed to one that years for him to disagree with her when they argue and not roll over for her

As for an earlier comment, I think Showalter would be a good bench coach for the Yankees, as long as he never becomes the manager again. I vote that the Yankees hire Showalter as the manager :)

Torre is more the father figure in the club house to a lot of those guys rather than their manager. I am not a supporter of piniella by any means, but i guarantee they aren't flat against the tigers if he is in control, he wouldn't let them get that comfortable, it is something oneil would have done for torre but we are long gone without one of those players on the team. A lot of other fans criticize the yankees players for being robots because they are businesslike and don't gloat on their victories unless it is the ws and they don't show emotion. I support a lot of the time they keep it classy but sometimes you need to jump out of your own skin and take a stand.

In 96, and the rest of the 90's the players were doing all of that, stealing, bunting, hit and running, exploting mistakes or disadvantages...

Posted by: yankeevmm@yahoo.com | October 8, 2006 09:36 PM

In the Boston Massacre II, they were doing all of that. After that series, they stopped.

and thats a good point rob, but with a little bit more of a hardass manager, i think they would have had an easier time remembering that they knew how to do all of that....granted tigers pitchers actually threw strikes, that boston massacre thing was more how bad the sox performed than how well the yankees did....the sox gave them every chance to beat them and the yankees gladly took advantage.

Another thing about Torre:

I find it interesting that whenever a team gets a 4 or 5 run lead on the Yankees in the early innings, they still don't stop running, bunting, etc, etc. Supposedly, it's because "with the Yankee's lineup, no lead is safe."

Yet whenever the Yankees get that kind of lead, they're supposed to back off. And Torre does back off. How many big leads did the Yankees squader this year? I can definitely think of one game, against Washington. You don't have that killer, pound them into the ground, mentality during the season, and you expect to have it in the post-season?

No more references to the Boston Massacre II, please :) That was a very unpleasant long weekend. Made my trip to Disney ****. When you can't smile at Disney, there's something wrong.

Who do the Yankees open with in 2007? The Sox are at Kansas City, which wasn't a good place to play this season.

It seemed like they were scared of Pudge. When they did get on, no one tested him.

...and I was on a radio show in 2004 asking why no one bunted on Schilling's ankle.

I should add...not only didn't the Yanks bunt on Schilling in Game 6, but neither did the Cardinals in the World Series that year. I find that inexcusable from BOTH teams.

Yeah, Mike, it's like they were trying to be the "nice guy" and not take an "unfair" advantage of the guy.

Sorry, but if he's on the field, he'd better be ready to play, and you make him prove it. Do you line up your best pass rusher against the other guys best offensive lineman? Do you not throw to the receiver being covered by the weaker of the two corners? Sorry for the football terminology, but I'm sure you get the point.

I said good day before. This time I mean it. I will not engage in any back and forth insults with anyone here, because I never meant to offend you, Jeff and Yankeevvm. Please calm down and don't get so excited. You are so angry now that although you managed to correct a "fresh of breath air", you are making all kinds of other incoherent remarks which do not indicate good mental health or clear thinking. I will insist on all of us using mutual courtesy on THIS blog, fellows, and I shall not abide any of your scurrilous remarks nor tolerate your unbecoming behavior aimed either at me or others here. You may choose to call me any names you choose. That Fagan fellow, Jeff, was utterly from a civilization unknown to me. I read nothing of his rantings after I became familiar with his tact. Embarrassingly for Mark and the rest of our posters, fellows, the equally unacceptable profanities and uncensored vulgarities flung back in his direction by you two specifically was even more uncooth and disgusting. At least he is gone! For good!, hopefully! You are still here, so make the most of it, because your acts, sincerely, absolutely need a lot of cleaning up. Other posters here apparently are either fond of or amused by you, so we don't reprimand you appropriately and often enough as you should be for your immature and nasty behavior, in my opinion. And, that will be all I am going to correct you on. I will not address this issue further, fellows. Again, calm down! now. Both of you. And both you kind gentleman have yourself a nice evening. Good night, again! God bless.

not meant to offend me? Yet you question the validity to my opinions, my mental health and all other facets of my life? are you joking? How should I not take offense to that? And rather than make claims everything i say is wrong, how about you actually express an opinion of your own, one that you clearly held out on all year on this blog since i've been here the whole time and you haven't

I think this dcapici guy is in his own world, or he is thinking of someone else. I never said and did anything to indicate that I was angry. I have not used a profanity or vulgarity either. Angry? My blood pressure is fine, thank you. It is very rare that I am ever angry.

I posted a blog on here earlier for the first time and am reading through some of the other blogs. Everyone on here are such great fans with so many ideas. Maybe they should consider letting us make the decisions for the 2007 season lol (just a thought!)

Well, I'm going to watch the rest of this Padres-Cardinals game and then hit the sack. I imagine I will converse with all of you in the near future since I check in on the baseball blogs daily. Talk to you later!

take it easy jeff, btw whats the score

catch you people later.

Can't root for LaRussa...I just can't.

6-2 cards

So.. its Tigers-As, Mets-Cards.

Personally, I pick the Tigers over the As. The As DID jsut finish sweeping the Twins (huge surprise), but the Tigers rallied to overcome the Yankees (again huge surprise). The Tigers have better pitching and equivilant batting and - I think - have sorta a "Team of Destiny" feel to them. Tigers wins.

Here I show my ignorance of the NL. I'm gonna say the Mets. They have a lower team ERA.. so I'm gonan go by that.

Then Mets vs Tigers...

well..

Tigers win that. AL tromps NL, period

worst world series ever

Why not just trade Giambi or Sheff (sign and trade) for Santana and another prospect? If you guys think without emotions blurring your eyes, 1B is where the overload is and it is overloaded with sub-par fielders. We need to get rid of either Sheff of Giambi. Which one is it??

If we trade Sheff to Angels, Vlad and Sheff can alternate DH/RF. It makes a lot of sense to both teams.

To: johnsrh@cfl.rr.com

Yes Ortiz did have a better season than ARod, but it seems like you do not pay attention to baseball statistics. ARod and Ortiz were tied at the end of the season with 19 game winning RBI each. You can't say ARod does not hit with RISP because that is just a cop out, or a typical ""Red Sox Nation"" thing to say. Maybe ORTIZ should help his team actually make the playoffs before you start hating on ARod who contributed to his team MAKING the playoffs.

vik we can't trade shef because he has no contract. We would have to resign him and then trade that to the angels, but why would the angels give up players when they could just sign him or outbid the yankees and give up nothing? The angels may not need giambi or want him with the roid baggage, his age and the fact he can't play defense or hit for average anymore. Plus he is extremely expensive for a dh

Firing Joe Torre would be the worst mistake Steinbrenner could make, even worse than building a new stadium. Torre represents all that is good about the Yankees. He is a true professional who respects everyone of his players as if they are his son. Getting rid of Torre will mark the end of an era for New York, and the "original 5" (Torre, Jeter, Mariano, Bernie, Jorge). Joe is the nucleus of that group and I don't think Steinbrenner knows how vital Torre is to this ballclub. I am 100% against firing Torre. But, if The Boss feels that there should be a new manager, then that is all there is to it. The Boss is the one who is signing all of the paychecks and it is his team. Let him do what he wants and maybe he will see how important Joe was to this team when the Yankees possibly miss the playoffs next year for the first time in 12 years.

Joe Torre should not take the fall for players who are grown men who just did not do their job and get paid millions of dollars! He did his job, but you have veterans on the team who are self-centered and do not know how to play like a team. Yankees need youth not a higher payroll! Just proves you can have all the money in the world, biggest payroll, but it just does not bring happiness and succeed. These players did not have the motivation or drive need to win. Look at the teams that are in the playoffs, those players wanted it more and did not need a manager to motivate them. I also think Yankess are over reacting to not being in the World Series, because the media is making it sounds because of their payroll Yankees should be there. You have to have the drive and talent, not expect it or get it because they deserve it!! Wake up, that is not how the world works!!! They have made the playoffs every year! Should every team care on like the Yankees when they do not make the playoffs????

I said Sheff in a sign and trade Vince. The Angels cant outbid Yankees for Sheff. Because, the yankees have a 13M option on Sheff for next season. So, why dont we just work a trade with Angels, pick that option up and then trade him. I remember reading somewhere that Sheff doesn't want to play 1B past this season.

Too many messages for me to read tonight. I did not see the last three games, but I followed and I have to blame Joe Torre for one thing: You play the guys who got you the Division, not the guys who were not a factor. Joe Torre has had one weakness -- he is too devoted to his veterans. He shoud not have played Sheff and He shold have had Milkey in Left and Matsui in DH. Still, there was really no doubt about the outcome. Loook at the only pitcher to win a game and his age. Randy turned out to be a bad sign (we get him just when he becomes ordinary) and Moose is now really a good #3. If our pitching had been better, the Tigers would have played differently, probably pressed and made a mistake which we could taken advantage of. Thought blame can also go to Cano (in game 2 how many times did he swing at the first pitch? Didn't anyone give these guys Ted Williams' book on the science of hitting?).

I'm flat out disgusted and there is no baseball until the winter meetings. We need pitching that is not over 35 years old and does not originate in the NL. But not Zito! At least I'm not that desperate.This team was built for the long season, not the short post-season. In the past (1996-2001) the team was balanced for both. I'm just sick.

This is what I think yankees really need to define what they want to be rather than just spending money and going for old talent. some of the things they started this year by holding young guys cano, wang, melky and so on so forth. the young generally want to prove something and always people who have to prove something or have something at stake and ofcourse willingness to go beyond......are the winners. I think what tigers did was to just prove everyone else in the world that they can over power yankees and they are no fluke entering post season which came every now and then. With yankees there was no such case so may be some new startegy will be needed to rekindle these guys in 07 to win the ws

The Boston Herald even thinks Torre should stay - and here's why:

http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=161481

(ps - I agree - if we fire Torre, we're going to regret it for the next SEVERAL years)

Interesting points about Torre/Pinella and Jeter/Arod dynamic:

While the Yankees may think they would be helping Rodriguez by hiring Piniella, it could also create more divisiveness because it could be viewed as a power play to satisfy Rodriguez. Piniella is a former Yankee player and manager, but one of the primary reasons for his arrival would be to resurrect Rodriguez.

In addition, inserting Piniella for the popular Torre would create another fissure between Derek Jeter and Rodriguez. Torre is the only major league manager Jeter, the team’s captain, has ever known. The hiring of Piniella could be perceived as catering to Rodriguez, a three-year Yankee with no World Series rings, over Jeter, a Mr. Yankee who calls the manager Mr. Torre and has four rings.

(NY Times)

ps - Altho anything can happen in 6 months here's another NY Times take on the ARod trade possibility:

No matter how loud the shouting grows for the Yankees to trade Rodriguez, it appears unlikely right now. Rodriguez has a no-trade clause and has repeatedly said that he wants to remain with the Yankees. While Rodriguez hedged slightly when offered the chance to simply say he would never waive the clause, General Manager Brian Cashman has expressed no interest in dealing him.

But then Cash also said we were going to resign Petitte so...

Hey if baseball is a game of statistics, then what does the following say?

The Yanks complete record:

Total Yrs-104, ALs-39(38%) WS-26(25%)

Pre-Steinbrenner Yrs-72, ALs-29(40%), WS-20(28%)

Tot-Steinbrenner Yrs-34, ALs-10(29%), WS-6(15%)

Tot-Torre Yrs-11, ALs-6(55%), WS-4(36%)

Pre-Torre ,Steinbrenner is ALS-4(12%), WS-2(8%)

It looks like the Yanks best yrs in history were the Torre/Cashman years. The worst years in all of history is Steinbrenner without Torre!

Yesterday I swung my 6 six into the ground in reactive frustration and anger, so I would understand if Gerge pulled the plug on Joe, but it would still be only out of frustration, not out of common sense.

Whoops! Tot Pre-Steinbrener yrs should be 70 yrs.

The Yankees are left wondering what went wrong? You're kidding right? What went wrong is the lack of being aggressive at the plate, and on the field! Sheff at first during the playoffs? He had never played this position before, and yet he was the only one who took a risk on this team!
The problem is this, we have too many "SUPERSTARS" who don't give a **** on our team. We played better this year without Matsui and Sheffield. We played better with our younger guys Cabrerra, Cano, Phillips. We were stealing bases, laying down sacrifice bunts, making productive outs that advanced the runners, and gave us a chance to score; and then WE TOOK ADVANTAGE OF THAT AND SCORED!

Even our rookie pitchers, Hughes and Henn, looked better than Wright, Lidle, and Johnson! And that's not mentioning the middle relief in the bully! The attitude on this team for the past few years has irritated me to no end. The attitude of "I don't have to contribute because the guy behind me will."

They have sat back and waited for the game to come to them, instead of going balls out and being aggressive. If you want to "wait for the game to come to you" go play checkers, because that is the only game I know that will come to you if you wait. A line up like the Yankees shouldn't have to be told to be aggressive.

What happened to the 1998 coaching? When we were stealing bases, producing runs, giving ourselves a chance to win? Pitching with a vendetta, challenging the other team to make plays? We are not that team anymore. We are sitting back waiting for the game to come to us, and are expecting them to be afraid of our scary lineup, and that will cause us to win. Our "scary" lineup still has to produce, and we are doing nothing to help them produce. With exception of Wang, our pitching staff either has no mechanics, are average, too old, out of shape, no control, and inconsistent. It's time to say goodbye to Johnson, Moose, Wright, Pavano, Lidle, Farnsworth(less), Sheffield, A-Rod, and Giambi. If we keep these mediocre players who don't give a **** about winning; then I hope Torre gets in their faces to play, and if he can't, bring in someone who will. And Pinella is not the guy to manage this team either, unless you want another Bronx Zoo on your hands.

But I say give Cabrerra, Phillips, Hughes, Henn, Colter Bean, Eric Duncan, and Kris Wilson a chance. Bubba Crosby will be back, and bring in some guys from the Clippers up to be Middle Relief.

But I, for one, am tired of this "non-chalant" attitude on our team, and it's time to be aggressive. I can handle being aggressive and losing a tough series (like the '01 World Series), but I cannot handle this team, and this loss. IF YOU GUYS WANT A CHAMPIONSHIP, GO OUT AND TAKE IT! As much as I love Torre, if he cannot convey this message to our guys of going out and taking what is ours; then yes, he needs to go.

You can tell who is and is not a real Yankees fan by how angry they get at certain people for "losing".

Whereas a real fan is devastated and hopeful for next year, the others are just flying into a blind rage and chasing random Yankees around with pitchforks.

I'm not buying it, you guys. The Yankees owe you absolutely nothing. And while there's a lot that I wish could have happened, I still love my Yanks. All you armchair GMs, I'm not so sure you do.

Wow, outstanding analogy, Swol, in "flying into a blind rage and chasing random Yankees around with pitchforks."

I found it difficult to comment in the sea of opinion, mostly of people who have been silent on this blog all year. I commented last night on Pete's blog, was assailed and stopped reading the comments about 7 or 8 after mine.

There are some major changes I would like to see but a managerial change is not one of them. The chaos that would begin scares me.

Remembering the pre-Torre years and the revolving door of managers is not a Yankee period I relish.

I had a thought this morning (or was it last night?). We've been hearing comparisons for the last month or so between this team and the '27 Bombers.

I thought it interesting that if this was 1927, the Yankees would have been in the World Series. No playoffs, only the team with the best NL record vs. the team with the best AL record.

Playoffs can be a crapshoot in our time. We lost. We live with it. We hope Cash picks up some good, anti-Pavano pitching in the off-season. And we look forward to next year because we know that Cashman will try and put the best team on the field and that Steinbrenner will pay for it.

To follow up on my last comment:

Would you rather have Steinbrenner? Or Loria?

I'll take the guy who at least cares about winning. Besides, would those Seinfeld episodes have been as funny if it was Loria they were poking fun at?

Apparently when it comes to the Yankees, winning isn't everything - its the only thing. Anything less than winning it all is failure.
What a philosphy. Its surprising how many fans buy into that though.

I'm so glad to see you guys. Finally, some calm voices of reason.

"Whereas a real fan is devastated and hopeful for next year, the others are just flying into a blind rage and chasing random Yankees around with pitchforks."

It always amazes me how The Crucible, a book written about MA in the late 1600s can apply to so many situations, even today. Picturing people running around with puritan hats on their heads, chasing Yankee players around with pitchforks put a big smile on my face. Thanks.

Angel, your comment about "winning is the only thing" brings me to a thought that I've been hesitant to state, because it borders on blasphemy to many Yankee fans. But here it is.

Jeter's philosophy is "anything but a WS championship is a failure." How has that affected the team, I wonder? Does it put unfair pressure on guys like ARod, Sheffield, Giambi, or any other big name that is brought in? What I'm referring to is not pressure from fans, but pressure within the clubhouse?

Just a thought. Please, nobody read into that that I am blaming Jeter for anything.

Voice of reason? Me?

Yep, Paul, the inmates are now running the assylum. lol.

You all have a good morning. Hopefully there will be no Yankee breaking news in an hour and a half when I have my lunch break (at 10:00 in the morning. yuck.)

Rob why do you want to trade Jeter?

Just kidding. Last night I got home and somehow made it through all the posts in this blog and read about 12 on Pete's blog, commented, read a few responses and gave up on baseball for the evening.

The Patriots edged out a win yesterday Yaay!

Paul, I too am happy about football yesterday. The 49ers actually won a game.

But look who they played. hahaha.

There is school today Rob? It is Columbus Day or Thanksgiving in Canada.

Who did the 49ers play? The Texans?

I would go look but I would have to go on a sports site and still might have to read baseball stuff.

Good to see some of the core contributors to this blog have survived the fallout.

Rob, it's an interesting theory. But I think the superstars that the front office brings in are made fully aware of the expectations of the New York Yankees as a whole. And don't forget...the day the Yankees signed Mussina, Giambi, Damon...they all talked about how much they loved the Yanks' commitment to winning and were determined to get rings of their own.

When push comes to shove, it's anyone's guess as to how these guys actually handle the pressure, and in that respect you might be right, Rob. But all I know is that they certainly aren't going to make excuses, and that's what I like about them.

rob, you make a good point about the '27 yankees comparison. if that were the case 81 years later we would have the subway series everyone in NY was dying for.

Another interesting thought... perhaps all this torre/ lou hype is a ploy. Steinbrenner's team would be OUT of the October spotlight and that OTHER NY team would be the focus of EVERYONE right now. Instead, somehow, all of the sports media is focusing on "what will the boss do?" "is torre out" etc. etc. Do you think this could be intentional media hype to draw the attention away from the mets? just a thought...

I thought your post on Pete's blog was fine. Its hard to wade through a sea of anonymous posters with their brave responses and not want to bang your head against a wall.

Yes, Paul, we still have school in Nevada. Pretty pathetic, eh? When I was a high school student, they took away Columbus day as a holiday in exchange for MLK day.

We do get Halloween off, though. It is Nevada statehood day. (Although we really get the 27th off this year, not the 31st. All of that "observed" stuff.)

Oh, and the 9ers beat the Raiders yesterday. Pillow fight of the week.

On Mike & Mike this morning they posed this question:

What will happen first this year? An Oakland win? Or a Bears loss?

i checked out the back page of the daily news today, and i must say, i was quite suprised to say the least, that an actual member of the new york media actually decided to take a break from kissing jeter's as/s for once.

Hey guys. Uuuugh it is just now hitting me that baseball is over. I feel like a junkie without a fix! :(

But since it is over, here's something I was afraid to say while we were still playing cause I didn't want to jinx it: Yankee pitching was the only team not to allow a grand slam this year. How bout that?!

Another thing I didn't want to say during the season: Farnsy the Fox didn't get in any fights! Booo I kind of wanted to see him kick some butt as he has done so dashingly in Chi & Detroit, lol. Of course I wanted it to happen early in the season when a suspension wouldn't matter as much. Oh well, there is still hope he'll get in a brawl in the offseason and hopefully it will be caputred by Page Six :)

Lola whatcle/who was it by? I'll check it out online if I can.

Hey Gina! =)
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/covers/

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/459945p-386970c.html

Thanks Lola! :) Hmm veddy interesting..I am dying to know who the former unnamed player is! But overall tho I just wish that people would stop writing about the Alex/Derek "beef" anyway cause I will never believe that it exists. Both guys are way too professional to let that happen. If there was bad blood there when Alex joined the team I cannot imagine that they wouldn't have sat down and squashed it immediately ya know?

how bout A-Rod to the Angels for Scot Shields and Santana... that'd be worth it if you ask me..

true indeed Gina.
I am EXTREMELY tired of the alex/jeter talk and comparism. I wish it'd just be over. But i must say, i am tired of Alex being painted as Dr. Evil and Jeter Mr. Perfect. Thats why i smiled a bit when i saw this. Not cause i think the story is 100% accurate, or because i dislike Jeter (i love him to pieces!), or that i like the blame game going on, but because FINALLY, someone stepped up and decided to examine other's roles in everything for once, instead of just going with the usual cop-out of blame Alex.

That, Lola, was a good article. Thank you for posting it.

charihar, the one problem I see with that trade is that it still leaves a void at 3b. If they Yankees do trade ARod, I think it should involve a position player, like Chone Figgins, who could possibly step in and play 3b.

Of course, they could always go out and get some free agent. Or is there some up and comer in AAA? Where's Mike when you need him...

I hear that Lola. If they are going to DOGGEDLY insist on continuing to write about it, it is nice to see that for once Alex isn't painted as the bad guy. I adore Jeter, but still.
(BTW if you ever get REALLY tired of the Alex bashing you should go on vacation to Miami. Everybody loves him there!)

Rob, as far as I know our only minor leaguer who would be ready or close to ready to play 3rd is Eric Duncan. Bu have heard mixed reviews about him; some say he's great, others insist he isn't all that. No matter which of those is true though, I think him playing 3rd would instantly make us miss Alex.

Detroiter here and would like to say a couple things.

First: Torre and Jeter going to the Tiger clubhouse an hour or so after the game to congratulate Leyland and some of the players that were still there was pure class. Much love and respect to them.

Second: Torre seems to be a great clubhouse manager but I think he got severely out-coached in that series. Sheffield at 1B was a trainwreck, and not even bringing Wang to Detroit was a huge mistake. If my choices are Wang on a few days rest as opposed to Wright or Lidle... that choice is easy.

Torre is a classy manager and represents you guys well, but maybe a fresh approach to the actual game on the field will make a difference.

Just my 2 cents.

A-Rod for Scot Shields and Santana? Not very likely. You'd have to throw in 2 high-level prospects for that to be a fair trade. Otherwise the Angels would be getting away with highway robbery.

But while we're playing Devil's Advocate, the only infield prospect that I can think of is Eric Duncan. He plays a decent 3B and 1B, and he's shown flashes of brilliance when he's healthy, like in last year's AFL (MVP)and Spring Training 2006 (Top Rookie). But when his back is acting up, you see the terrible stretches like with his last stint with Columbus.

We'll see what happens in this year's AFL and Spring Training 2007. Hopefully he stays healthy, because even if he doesn't take over at 3B, he would be a good substitute for Giambi at first base.

Ah, sorry a24. Didn't mean to steal your thunder. :-P

Duncan has back issues, already? I didnt know that. Thats a tiny bit of a concern.

Crash thanks for posting. Can't speak for everyone but for me, the compliments you gave to the Yankees also reflect the way I feel about the Tigers, particularly Leyland. Very classy guy. Good luck to you guys the rest of the series--kick some As/s. :)

LOL it's cool Swo.

I must say I've learned a lot about Yankee fans by reading this blog.

You would think George would realize after the yearly debacles with the US Hockey, Basketball, and Baseball teams that taking all the best players at each position and mashing them into a team usually doesn't work. Role players, youngsters with fire, castoffs looking for a second chance to prove themselves.... all those things go into a team concept.

Otherwise the US would never lose at any of the worl games... instead of losing at all of them.

As have I, ataustin. I orginally started checking this blog because I had read we were getting no credit from Yankee fans, but that could not be farther from the truth. They are very baseball savvy and I hope to blog with them for many Octobers to come. =)

Yeah, we're definitely a very *diverse* bunch, Andy. :-)

I've been a Yankee fan since the early '60's, but out here on the west coast I'm far removed from the hype and frenzy. I'm very passionate about my team, but I know that losing is part of the game, and there are some things you can't control. I always thought Steinbrenner's over-reactions to losing a bit excessive, but it seems more fans share that mentality than I ever would have guessed.

LOL any observations that you can entertain us with in particular Andy? (anything so I don't actually have to work today--the end of baseball season is far too depressing so I need to hone my slacking skills. hehe)

Sorry, Rob. I was in signing severance papers today and the UE office is closed due to Columbus day. Have a 2-day seminar to attend next week which retrains us for resumes, networking, cover letters, job searching...sigh.

No, there is no 3b in the minors, unless you feel that Eric Duncan is a prospect, which I certainly don't. Duncan is still young, but I've seen him play and something isn't there for me. He does have power, but .235 in the minors, and he made a lot of errors at 3b two years ago before a switch to 1b this year. Just a hunch, but he seems like Drew Henson Part II when it comes to 3b. Russ Johnson...at age 34, certainly not a prospect!...was the 3b in Columbus. The Yanks would have to get a Figgins or Aramis Ramirez should they deal Alex. Either that or use some kind of package to get Cabrera from the Marlins. But there isn't any way a package could be done without sacrificing young talent like Hughes, Cano, Clippard or Tabata and you don't want to do that. The last I knew, Mora was a f.a., but I'm not sure if he signed an extension with the O's (if he did, why with the way that team is going?)

As for the one person this morning, he had a good argument until he mentioned

Henn, Colter Bean, Eric Duncan, and Kris Wilson a chance...and Bubba.

If he seriously thinks any of those players are going to help the Yankees contend, he is nuts. I mean, Sean Henn? Has he ever really seen this guy pitch? Bean, Wilson? Get serious.

One thing written in the Daily News article is exactly what I talked about on our internet show last night...that in getting Lou, A-Rod's 1st manager and mentor, the perception may be that they are getting him to coddle A-Rod at the expense of the other 24 players. It may not be true, but the perception of appeasing one player over the other 24 is not good.

One score ago, Lou took over a team heavy on hitting (Winfield, Mattingly, Claudell Washington, Rickey, Griffey for a while, Clark for a while, Pags (even though he hit in the .230s and couldn't hit lefties), Pasqua (another with trouble vs. lefties)) and that had trouble with pitching. Now this is what he could take over. As Yogi would say, "Deja Vu all over again"

Should there be a change, I'd want Girardi. He is someone the players would respect, and he would be a good choice to handle young pitchers like Clippard, Wang, Karstens, Hughes, Rasner, Cox, and possibly Matsuzaka. Should there be a change, I think it should be toward a manager grounded in pitching (former catcher Girardi) rather than hitting (Lou). Girardi also had to learn to manage this year. Not knocking Joe, but Girardi had less to work with and had to be more of a hands-on manager regarding steals, hit and run, etc. due to the nature of his squad and playing in the AL. Even with the injuries, Joe could afford to be more of a push-button wait for the 3-run HR guy than Girardi could be.

I have a lot of thoughts, but not much time right now.

Catch you later!

Hi everyone, I have been reading the blog all year but have never posted. For the most part, reading what you all had to say has been a pleasure. For the most part. Even with the horribly, depressing, gut wrenching end it was still a great season.

Sorry...I meant playing in the NL regarding Girardi's Marlins.

Typo.

This team is not a train wreck. We had the best record in the league, great hitting, decent pitching and defense, and a nice blend of youth and experience.

Some people are saying we need guys that don't just wait to hit home runs, that just get the base hit, steal bases, play hit-and-run, etc. Excuse me? We were 2nd in the league in stolen bases, 2nd in batting avg, and 1st in on-base pct. Torre had his runners moving far more than most AL teams.

We've got a great team. Do we need better pitching? Absolutely. But that's the only piece missing. Let's not blow up the team in search of things we've already got!

I think a lot of the comments, Andy, aren't things that the usual fans on this blog are necessarily advocating, they are just things that we think could or might happen. At least that's the point of most of my comments.

Most of the more extreme, off-the-wall comments come from those who aren't regulars to the blog.

Anyhoo since I REALLY don't want to do any work today I will ask again lol...seriously NO ONE but me was bummed that we didn't ONCE get to see Farnsy kick some as/s this season?!

Thanks Mike!

And very well stated about Girardi. I couldn't agree more.

Specifics, Gina? Well, without naming names....d;>

Every loss, no, every bad inning means disaster: "get rid of that guy/why'd we get rid of that guy?", "Torre's an idiot for bringing in/not bringing in that pitcher", "why's he swinging at the first pitch/get more aggressive, guys".

Of course, winning means different things to different people. To some it means we're invincible, on an unstoppable march to dynasty heaven, to others it just means it's time to start thinking of reasons we won't win tomorrow.

It's like riding the bi-Polar Express!

I understand they're not regulars here, Rob, but most of them are still Yankee fans. It just seems the classic Steinbrenner knee-jerk reaction is shared by a lot of fans. Maybe I understand him better now, too.

Good to see everyone still on here.

I don't have a problem with the attitude that the season is a failure if they don't win. That's the ultimate goal. If they don't win, they failed to reach that goal. Jeter has never been on a Major League team that has not reached the post season, and almost every year they have won the division. His team won the World Series in 4 of his first 5 seasons. (I'm not counting 1995 when he played a few games and was not on the postseason roster.) When you have so much success so early, it has to be a major letdown when you can't sustain it. Plus, we all know what George expects.

As for the Jeter/ARod issue, I don't know what to believe. I know niether player, and I have (unfortunately) never been inside the Yankee clubhouse. Is it media-driven? Is it fan driven? Is there a real sense that even the teammates have to ally themselves with Jeter at the expense of ARod (kind of like children whose parents have a bad marriage or are going through a divorce)? I don't know. A lot of people point to the Esquire article. A lot of people say that Jeter should get over it becuase it was a long time ago. But, I remember losing some respect for ARod when the article came out. If a friend said those things about me, I would have a problem with it. I might be able to get over it, but it would stay with me. That being said, Jeter could have helped the situation during the season. Even if it didn't make a difference with the fans as he claims, it would have been one less storyline.

If I was a yankee fan I guess this would bring me down too, but I'm not. Sooo...let's go A's

a-rod doesnt need a manager to coddle him what he needs is a more lenient media. he had a good game 1 with 3 good at bats but espn still talked about how he had a bad game so he started to put to much pressure on hisself which is y he was lunging at the ball the rest of the series. look at his postseason numbers before every media outlet started to rag on him he had like a career 340 postseason avg.

Mike, this is my first time reading your blog. Great insights! You are dead-on regarding Torre. That this team won 97 games and ran away with the division with the paper-thin starting pitching staff he was stuck with, as well as the injuries to his everyday players, is all I need to know to call him manager of the year.

I'm as disappointed as everyone else that we're out so soon. The truth is that we got beat. Detroit had a heck of a team this year and their pitchers, from game two on, were practically unhittable. Unfortunately, those tired old millionaires at 2 and 3 in the Yank's rotation couldn't keep us in the games.

As always, looking forward to next year, after what is likely to be an entertaining, if not exasperating winter. LOL

They were 2nd in the league in steals, but when they did get on against Detroit, it seemed like they were maybe too respectful of Pudge. Granted Pudge is great and some pitchers have good moves, but I didn't see good leads or any attempt to steal. I do remember a hit and run attempt in Game 1.

Maybe that's just me. You could chime in.

Of course, when you go 15 up and 15 down in Game 4, there is no one getting on that you can steal or hit and run with.

Not to mention some guys like Giambi can't run or hit and run...

As I recall, they've been hanging Pinella over Joe's head for years though, long before Arod got here.

i think joe should be held responsible but i dont want to see him cast to the street with one year left on his contract. he did a great job in the regular season so he should be rewarded and allowed to come back and finsih his contract up

Andy, **** @ Bipolar express! That it is. I think most of the people who post the kind of things that make us regulars go "W/T/F?!" do not post here often, but Pete's blog, unfortunately, is a breeding ground for them. That's why I like it here better. But it is amazing to me too how some fair weather fans can be singing the praises of a player (or Torre) one day, and calling for their head the next.

Oh, and also, the obnoxious "I told you so" e-mails are starting to come in from my Met fan friends. AUUURGH! I hope they lose next...Go Cardinals!

I agree. Great blog, Mike. Mike is the best. What a tremendous blog!

Just one question....

Who is Mike?

That's because people can post anonymously, Gina. So none of them can be called for what they post because you can't tell one from the other. Its confusing and downright bi-polar, lol.

Speaking of Pete's blog, he has a post with some interesting comments about why some people do not like Joe Torre. I found this particularly interesting:
"There are plenty of media people who are jealous of Torre. They see themselves as stars who shape events in New York and they hate Torre because he has been around so long and is so widely respected. Torre also treats every media outlet fairly (as does Cashman) and that drives them crazy."

LOL I know Angel I hate having to refer to "Anon @ 11:16" or "Anon @ 4:27" just so I can argue their gloom and doom nonsense.

I think all the Anons there are the same two or three bitter people over and over.

Disappointment,sadness, and rage. The words that describe the feelings of TRUE Yankee fans. The team did not play like the team they are. The chemistry is limb at best and the pitching (especially the 'pen, except Mo) was pathetic. The Yankees should only trade A-rod if the trade makes logical sense, not just because half of the city hates him. Pinella is not the right manager for this team, Torre is. If the team needed to replace Torre it needs to be Girardi. He was being groomed for the job for years as a player and coach under Torre anyway.
The biggest needs in the offseason are pitching, young pitching, and good young pitching. Wright and Pavano have not worked out and their contracts should and probably will be bought out. The Shef situation could be one it ponder over before acting. Shef is not stuck in the outfield. He could get further teaching on first from Donny baseball and become a efficent first sacker. Giambi would then move to the spot better suiting for him, DH. The Boss will make the right decisions about Torre and Cashman will act accordingly.

We as Yankee fans should be disappointed with the outcome, but we must continue to support the team. Boycotts, demanding trades/ firing are not the right moves of support at the moment. I personally will be making my deposit for season tickets immediately after they are available for next year, as I do every year. So for my fellow Yanks fans will are still the best. Number 27 is coming, and the just remember when the Red Sox fans say "Yankees ****" that we have 26 titles and counting in 88 years, they only have 2. Until next year, Let's Go Yankees!!!

I think the Yankees will be a far better team and have a chance at following a development plan once the Tampa contingent is disembowled.

Or at least disenfranchised.

Also the one thing on Pete's blog that really makes me want to break open a can of whoop as/s is when people diss Bernie. I mean I know he can't play the field well anymore but what is he supposed to say when they put him in the OF?! "No, I won't play there?!" Seriously he is just doing his job and I understand his skills have declined but this is BERNIE we're talking about! Do people really have to be so callous and make such rude remarks about him?! Are those REALLY Yankee fans?!

Haha Paul the disembowelment plan sounds like the better one to me. If not that, then at least dismemberment. Maybe BAMF and Farns (if his back can take it) would be available to do the dirty deed? :)

Gina-
I'm glad you brought up Bernie. It makes me sad that his last game in a Yankee uniform may have been spent on the bench in Detroit.

Somebody mentioned the "I told you so" emails that are flowing in from Mets fans, so I thought I'd share this annoying one that I received yesterday.
THIS IS WHY I SWITCHED TO THE METS A LONG TIME AGO

The Mets are the ones coming home alive, back to Shea to open the NLCS on Wednesday against the winner of the Cardinals-Padres series. The Yankees are coming home to face a firing squad consisting of one deadly sniper, George M. Steinbrenner III.

And that is as it should be, because right now, not only are the Mets the better ball club, they are a truer reflection of the city they represent than the current Yankees could ever be.

The Mets are as diverse as the city itself, with a homegrown black manager in Willie Randolph, a homegrown Dominican GM in Minaya, two homegrown infield talents, one Latin, one white, in Jose Reyes and David Wright, and a Jewish right fielder in Shawn Green.

And they have a loyal, subway-riding, mostly blue-collar fan base that has yet to be displaced by the front-running limousine crowd that has overrun Yankee Stadium since 1996.

The Yankees are the privileged New York of Rudy Giuliani and Donald Trump and Billy Crystal and Goldman Sachs, the exclusive New York that can always get a table at Elaine's or Rao's.

They are Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera and a mismatched band of outrageously paid mercenaries who haven't produced. Their lineup is a gaudy collection of freelancers who have never jelled into a true team, their clubhouse devoid of camaraderie. In the process, Yankee Stadium has become a tense, joyless cauldron where winning is demanded rather than enjoyed and victory brings not pleasure but relief.

This year, Shea Stadium was what Yankee Stadium used to be, before too much success brought a sense of arrogance and entitlement to increasingly jaded fans. Mets games were festive and fun, and the stories coming out of Shea were mostly uplifting -- the emergence of Reyes and Wright, the return to New York of El Duque, the huge contributions made by "little guys" such as Endy Chavez and Jose Valentin.

The Mets have been as bracing as a ride on the Coney Island Cyclone.

NOW, IF SWEET LOU COMES RIPPING BACK INTO TOWN...

Don Baylor was traded for Mike Easler in 1986.

-to answer the last yankee redsox deal...thank you ian brown.

btw s mabry...you're a sad sad little man or woman with too many innaccuracies and hypocritical comments to even begin attempting to address

Mike, sorry this took so long, I was checking back to the games we lost...

The Tigers were the hardest team to steal on in the majors. In addition, the Yankees had precious few opportunities to even try when it made sense. I've gone back to the three games we lost on GameDay and in games 2 and 4 I can only find one obvious steal situation, Abreu on 1st ahead of Sheff, but the AB didn't work in the runner's favor. In game 3 there were a couple of chances, but Rogers only allowed 1 SB in 8 attempts all year, so overall, stealing was not going to happen.

As far as the hit-and-run, it's dangerous to do when you're behind in the count because of the possibility of the pitch-out, and because you're less likely to get a pitch the batter can put into play. Because the Tigers pitchers were constantly getting ahead in the count, the Yankees ability to be aggresive was limited. Also, when your batters are missing as many pitches as the Yankees were, it's tough to hit-and-run.

The fact is, the Tigers pitched the Yankees perfectly. Everybody knows the Yankees like to work the count, take a strike, see a lot of pitches. The counter to that is to throw 1st pitch strikes and force the hitters to either swing early in the count or hit from 0-1 and 0-2. In game 3 they mostly chose to hit from behind in the count, because the thing that made Rogers so tough is he was throwing 1st pitch curveballs for strikes on the corners. In game 4 they tried to be more agressive and swing at the 1st pitch, and everybody said "What's the matter, why aren't they working the count like they always do?"

Of course, I guess you could say if Giambi can steal a base why can't Damon or Jeter? d:>

I wonder if there's room in Andrew's basement for the whole Tampa group....

Gina-
I'm glad you brought up Bernie. It makes me sad that his last game in a Yankee uniform may have been spent on the bench in Detroit.

Posted by: pinstripes242@yahoo.com | October 9, 2006 03:36 PM

Me too :( I was so happy that he was in the starting lineup of one of the few games I got to this season, worst case scenario at least I got to chant Bern Baby Bern one last time. However on the bright side, Mark did post in one of his blogs (either this one or last one) that of all the people whose contracts were up this year, Bernie (along with Moose) is the most likely to return. I just hope that they stay true to their word of keeping him as a bench player/DH next year because playing him in the OF only opens him up to criticism and I hate that!

I'm pissed at Giambi still for that one AB where Rogers threw 3 fastballs right down the middle. I think they were all at like 93 or so, and when he got called out on strikes he had the nerve to argue with the umpire.

I have been a Yankees fan for ten years and wouldn't have looked at them twice had it not been for Joe Torre. I have followed his managing career since his days in Atlanta. If he goes, a Yankee fan goes, and invests money into his next team. I will miss the team but carry forward my dedication to Torre's fantastic abilities.

I dont get that mentality. Im a fan of the team, I like Joe, but he alone isn't the reason I'm fan. What happens if he stays and retires next year? Do you stop being a yankee fan when that happens? Strange.

Question....IF A Rod would get traded, what would the minimun would you want in return? A quality #2 starter and a stud bull pen reliver? More, less? 3rd basemen? I keep hearing all over if Lou is in, A Rod is staying.......

Russ, I'd say you have to get at least 3 impact players in return for him.

So... you're a Yankee fan but you say that if Torre leaves, you won't be a fan anymore?

...

I'm sorry but that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Wow, lisamiller, you've been a fan for 10 years and the only person on the team you find endearing is Joe? You wouldn't still be compelled in the slightest to root for Jeter, Mo, Posada, Matsui or ANYONE else on the team? Don't feel compelled to continue to root for the team because of past Yankee greats and the tradition embodied by their excellence?

How's the weather over in your neck of the woods? Is it FAIR?

BTW advance apologies to everybody else for the snarky nature of my last post lol.. but I see I am not the only one who was miffed by that. :D

*IF* A-Rod gets traded to the Angels I would want:

-Figgins

-Shields

and one of:

-Kendrick

-Santana

Andrew tells it how it is.

Sheffield Rips Torre's Game 4 moves....read more....http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6042616?FSO1&ATT=HMA

The next thing Sheffield will be ripping is the lease to the apartment he has in NYC. BUHBYE, a**wipe!

He may rip his managerial moves but he also says he's surprised by all the talk of getting rid of him.

Sheffield is the anti-Arod. Arod is too careful trying to say the right thing, Sheffield always seems to go out of his way to say the wrong thing.

To his credit Andrew, he does defend him in that respect and also seems to be supportive of ARod, which I appreciate. But I am just sick of the mood he brings to the team in general. Like Joe, I was willing to give him a chance when he came off the DL, but we all know how that worked out. :/

I don't like him either but to be fair, he did come back from major surgery and I think there is a possibility that he was rushed right back into the heat of things.

Sheffield, don't let the door hit you on the way out. I say good riddance. Leaves more room for Melky to step up and shine. I'm not too sold on Abreu either, playing on mediocre teams his whole career with no postseason experience - Sound familiar Mr. Rodriguez. I still want to clarify that if anyone is to blame, it is the pitching staff, not A-Rod. This team never needed and superstar power hitter to win the world series, and if you look at the trend recently (with the exception of Boston getting lucky in '04) all the teams won as a team. They even won with guys that had corny names with absolutely no fanfare: Konerko?! Jenks?! Figgins!? Come on. I mean seriously, how is Fox going to sell this year's ALCS?

SWISHER!! KOTSAY!! GRANDERSON!!! INGE!!! IT'S THE ALCS ON FOX!!

So in summary, my solution for the Yankees' troubles: get some guys with stupid names in there, switch it up. Is Coco Crisp a free agent this year??

i think torre's time in new york is over. i dont feel he has the drive he use to have when they were winning championships. you have the best line up in all of baseball and you bench guys like sheff to play melky. last i checked melky's numbers arent as good as sheff's. i'm getting tired of everyone blaming arod for the yankees loss. he is one player the last time i checked there was nine batters and i dind'nt see any of them doing any better then arod. the media killed arod this year and all the yankee fans fed into it. people love giambi all of sudden but what happened when he was slumping. did the yankees trade him. NO. he took a shot of steroids and starting hitting home runs again. people love him now. when you compare his stats to arods stats arod is far better but thats just me. i think torre should go and should stay. i think if the fans lay off of arod you'll see the old arod. and one more thing if jeter truly cared about whats best for the yankees he would gladly give up his position to the better shortstop. put jeter at third and see how great the immortal jeter would play.

Nice, Andy. I don't have the pitch by pitch sequence. Good work on how the Tigers not only took away the bats but also took away the running game if the Yanks did get on. Besides lack of hitting, nothing makes a team look more lethargic than a team who can't hit and then can't run.

Lisa above should check out Vaccaro's column in the Post. I don't agree with Vaccaro a lot, but he does remind us of one thing. For the most part, managers never leave on their own terms. Only one World Series manager the Yanks had ever left on his own terms, so to speak. Miller Huggins died on the job.

I think there is a possibility he may have been rushed too Andrew, but seeing as how he knew he needed to prove himself for a contract next year--be it with the Yanks or someone else--I think it's prob. safe to assume that he himself was at least somewhat a proponent of said rushing.

Reading that article, we hear of Manny being Manny...

but then there is Sheff being Sheff...

I have nothing against the Mets, and actually admire Reyes and Wright, who are two very good young players. One thing does disturb me and it is this. Mets fans I know have criticized the Yanks for the spending and free agent signings. The Yanks (as we know) get criticized for it all of the time.

But no one has or is criticizing the Mets for the same thing. Let's take a look at Pedro, Glavine, Wagner, Beltran...

not to mention the "fire sale" pickups of Delgado and LoDuca.

Double Standard, anyone?

It is definitely a double standard Mike. People will contine compalin that the Yankees still spend the most. I'm so tired of hearing it.

I could go on a Sheffield tirade, but I will refrain.

Oh, and Lisa, you shouldn't tell people you are a Yankee fan. You should tell them you are a Joe Torre fan.

In Lisa's defense, I have felt that way a number of times in the past, when the Yankees traded a particular favorite player, or fired a manager I liked. Maybe the worst was the strike that wiped out the Series - I was done with baseball forever! But wounds heal, grief eases, and like a moth to a light bulb....

Don't judge too harshly those who are speaking out of grief. I saw some pretty severe comments coming from some of you on Saturday and Sunday.

Not me, I kept a cool head.

Such is the way of the Andrew.