Jeter misses out on MVP

Well put Mark. I am sure that Derek is much, much more upset that the Yankees didn't advance to the ALCS. I highly doubt he'll lose any sleep over this, which is why he IS the MVP, and always will be.

"Joe Cowley of the Chicago Sun-Times, who voted Jeter sixth, voted like a man who just didn't pay attention. After listening to his interview on WFAN Tuesday, clearly he didn't, as he listed Jeter behind Morneau, Dye, Santana, Thomas and Ortiz."

...there's a shocker.

Mark, you have Justin Verlander both 7th and 9th. Is that intentional? Also the link isn't working to hear the WFAN interview.

Mark, you really seem to like Justin Verlander, voting for him twice.

For anyone interested, here is the list of votes for each writer in the AL MVP award for 2006.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spvotes1122,0,2346956.htmlstory?coll=ny-main-bigpix

My list looks like Mark's list only Nick Green replaces Verlander in the 7 and 9 spots.

What a travesty in both leagues. I don't even think Morneau is the most valuable player on the Twins! Anyone who knows anything about baseball and watched Pujols and Jeter play read outside the (great) numbers and saw what each man meant to their teams. Especially in clutch situations. Who do you want up to bat in the bottom of the 9th, down 1 with a man on - Morneau or Jeter. There's your winner. This guy Cowley from Chicago has been previously disciplined for ignorant voting by the BBWAA. It's about time to take him off the list permanently.

"While I know that voting for these awards is primarily based on differing opinions and statistical debates, it's also part of what makes baseball such a great sport," Jeter said in a statement released by the Yankees.

"Having said that, I'm flattered and honored to have been considered for the American League Most Valuable Player Award. I want to congratulate Justin Morneau on this well-deserved honor. He is a special player, and I suspect this won't be the last time you will hear his name mentioned when awards are being passed out.

"You've heard me say it a thousand times, but winning the World Series for the New York Yankees continues to be my main focus. There is no individual award that can compare with a championship trophy, and I look forward to working towards that challenge again in 2007."

NOTHING BUT CLASS!

A big cheer for the Post coverage of the MVP vote today, and a big Boo to Mike Lupica.

As Mike Vaccaro writes, what is really scary is that some of these same writers may be voting on Derek for the HOF 15-20 years from now. Between shafting Jeter out of the MVP, Mo from last year's Cy, and Goose from the Hall, it's getting ridiculous.

Kudos to George King in the Post for printing this! (I filled in the 2003 numbers of Wells and Delgado for you). I know Cowley's vote didn't cost Jeter the award, but...

in 2003, Cowley left Vernon Wells (.317-33-117, led AL in hits and doubles) AND Carlos Delgado (.302-42-145, led league in RBI) completely off his ballot. Chicago chapter chairman Paul Sullivan then SUSPENDED Cowley from voting in 2004 because he felt Cowley didn’t take the voting seriously and “embarrassed” the chapter.

Yet he voted this year. Sigh.

I thought it was Cowley who put Alex 5th on his ballot. It wasn't.

Cowley did put 2 dhs above a GG shortstop.

I'd love to know who the writer was who put Alex 5th and I'd like to know what he was watching (and/or smoking).

It was John Hickey of Seattle who put Alex 5th.

Who's he kidding?

I dont want to take away from Morneau, however, as you stated he may not even be the MVP on his team. I also woudl like to comment on Jeter's comment of Morneau winning,I felt this was yet another class act on Jeter's part and perhaps one more reason for him to have been voted the MVP.

haha Yankee fan you and Paul are the only ones that hate Alex so much. As bad as his year may have seemed it wasn't really that bad at all (other than he had more up and down streaks than normal). He ended up with a first place rank among 3rd basemen in the AL (finished 3 in the Elias rank in the AL). BTW it was the Seattle reporter that had Alex 5th :)

As much as I'm a Yankee fan I don't get all the commotion about Cowley and his votes. He wasn't the only person who put Morneau ahead of Jeter. Its also not the first time that their has been controversy over voting. The bottom line is that sportswriters are asked to pick who they feel is the MVP. Not the fans, players or even other sportswriters. When personal opinion are brought into the mix, numbers aren't the only thing that are taken into consideration.

If fans want that aspect taken out then MLB should create a computerized system and plug in the numbers for the outcomes. (I personally like the current way better even if I don't always agree with the outcome).

It seems there is an anti-yankee bias with some writers. Why do I feel that way? Cowley gives me that feeling. If he truly thinks Morneau had a better year that Jeter so be it. We can't remove him just cause he voted contrary to what I would have. He probably would not think Derek Jeter is Hall of Fame material because he didn't hit as many HR's as some other inductee. Give me another World Series win

Jonnia, reading comprehension may not be your strong suit. I never said I hate ARod. And Mike never said anything negative about him.

I have. He is overrated, overhyped, and a major distraction to the Yankees in every way.

He should have decent statistics in offensive categories since he had more players on base in front of him than any player in baseball. Let me repeat that for you so read slowly...more players on base in front of him than any player in baseball.

Get it yet? That means that even with 139 strikeouts he would have knocked in a few runs. Batting 4th on the Yankees with so many on base Kelly Stinnett would have knocked in 100 runs.

To evaluate a player you need to look at a lot more factors than RBI. Maybe hitting with runners in scoring position or hitting in late innings would be a good start.

Those stats might paint a different picture.

Now, about your other delusion. Cowley apparently had absolutely no clue what Jeter did during the year as presented above and elsewhere on this blog. Ahhh, but you might have to read all the words rather than just 4 or 5 to understand that.

A writer asked to vote on a player has the responsibility to know what he or she is voting about. It is not a beauty contest or choosing your socks in the morning. It behooves the writer to do a little research to perform the task adequately and not look like a total fool. This Cowley is a total fool already reprimanded for being lazy another year. Ahhhh, but you would have had to read that too.

I will let you go back to worshiping ARod since there is already far too much here for you to read.

I don't hate Alex. Not at all. But there is no way he deserved to get a 5th place vote in MVP.

He didn't deserve a 10th place vote--not this year, anyway.

What's really scary is if writers like Cowley vote for political offices like they vote for the baseball MVP.

I shudder at the thought.

BTW, I DID mention who voted Alex 5th. Read above. I did correct myself (and always do when I find I have erred).

Pete Abe reccommends an article by a colleague of his:

http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061122/COLUMNIST03/611220385/1108/SPORTS01

Paul sounds like I hit a nerve. I didn't mean that you literally hate A-Rod (hence the haha I was kidding). Strictly based on your posts I can tell you don't want A-Rod on the Yankees for whatever reason and you aren't alone.

However, I don't agree with you and its not just because of RBIs or that I "worship" A-Rod. The facts are that in his worst year, he had a better avg, more walks, better OBP, and only two fewer runs than the Yankees lead off man. His strikeout to at-bats avg was about the same as Giambi (sluggers tend to strike out more than others). He finished in the top 10 in 5 AL batting categories. Based on that I don't get why so many people want to see him leave. Other than committing 24 errors (most of which came after the constant booing) he didn't have that bad of a season.

As for Cowley I didn't say I agree with him and even noted that "When personal opinion are brought into the mix, numbers aren't the only thing that are taken into consideration." My thoughts were even if Cowley had voted for Jeter he still wouldn't have won, so why is he (Cowley) taking all the heat?

Guess I'm not the only one that needs to read better :)

yankee fan:

The scary thing is that many people DO vote on politics in this manner.

(BTW I was typing and "working" so I didn't see your update on the Seattle voter before I posted).

As strange as I think the voting of Arod of a 5th place, the person who voted Giambi 6th was just as bizarre, lol. Am I the only one who saw that?

I didnt bother posting yesterday. I checked on here last night and was so stunned and amazed by some of the things I saw posted I had no words. Being sick and irritable about it, I figured it wasn't worth it. I'd just get really upset and hurt - and its not worth it. I can't say Jeter was *robbed*, I just think he was more deserving than Morneau - who had a great year.

Cowley is taking the heat because of a) his low vote (sixth) to Jeter b) the fact he put two dhs above a GG position player, and c) his very recent past history of ridiculous ballots.

Agree with you on the scary voters, Jonnia...

Yeah, Angel. I'm going to look at each individual ballot when I get the time. I printed it out for myself. I'd love to see which votes defy reason.

Jonnia, once again you need to read more carefully. Did I say that if Cowley did his job Jeter would have won? Nope.

It still does not excuse a sloppy incompetent professional from not doing his job.

I question the ability of the person who voted him in 4th place also.

No question in my mind that ARod played a part in this decision along with a NY bias and an over emphasis on power statistics.

The following three sportswriters have the the opinion that Jeter DOES NOT deserve to be MVP because of ARod.

Joel Sherman of the NY Post and other dopes who pay him to spew

http://www.msgnetwork.com/content_news.jsp?articleID=v0000msgn20061121T201008175&newsgroup=ap.sportsml.columnist.article&sports=baseball&team=Yankees&league=mlb

Ken Davidoff of Newsday

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spkdjeter194982587nov19,0,1224671.column?coll=ny-yankees-print

Phil Taylor of SI

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/phil_taylor/11/01/arod.jeter/index.html

Now do you think those are the only three of that opinion?

The reality is the MVP decision ought to be based on play on the field, not how guys interact, not their shoes size, not their library membership, not their eye color, not their knowledge of Benjamin Franklin, not their favorite music, but just baseball.

What a radical concept! Judging a player on the way he plays the game! Who would have thought of that?

Certainly not the esteemed Baseball Writers Assn.

I think Jeter's response was classy and exactly how I thought he'd think - although, what else was he supposed to say? If he was even slightly disappointed (which would be understandable) - he'd never say it.

As for Joe Cowley, I have one thing to say.

"Its is better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

I hope that man is never allowed to vote again. He disrespected the award, the players and his profession with his vote and comments about it.

Did any of those writers have a vote? SI and Newsday are tabloids.. AT BEST.

They're all writing what SELLS.

PeteAbe is right. Most people outside of New York and the general vicinity of the northeast couldn't care less about the Jeter/Arod relationship. I can absolutely vouch for that being the case here.

As for Joe Cowley, I have one thing to say.
"Its is better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

Yesterday, that quote belonged to Joe Cowley. Today, I'd like to re-gift it to Mike Lupica. :-)

"Jonnia, once again you need to read more carefully. Did I say that if Cowley did his job Jeter would have won? Nope."

Paul, you can stop with the saracastic "reading" quotes because clearly you aren't reading what I said.

When did I ever say that YOU said that if Cowley did his job Jeter would have won? Nope. I'm pretty sure I CLEARLY said "MY THOUGHTS were even if Cowley had voted for Jeter he still wouldn't have won, so why is he (Cowley) taking all the heat?" What about the other 14 voters who also placed Justin ahead of Jeter?

"No question in my mind that ARod played a part in this decision along with a NY bias and an over emphasis on power statistics." links, links, links. "Now do you think those are the only three of that opinion?"

Is that question to me? If so,

When did I say anything about A-Rod/Jeter relationship having anything to do with the voting one way or another?

I DID SAY that when personal opinions are involved numbers aren't usually the only thing taken into consideration. (I didn't say it was right or wrong).

"The reality is the MVP decision ought to be based on play on the field, not how guys interact, not their shoes size, not their library membership, not their eye color, not their knowledge of Benjamin Franklin, not their favorite music, but just baseball."

And I noted in my first post "If fans want that aspect taken out then MLB should create a computerized system and plug in the numbers for the outcomes."

ok. Checked them out. Hmm...here are some I find questionable...other than the Cowley vote of Jeter 6th.

Thom Loverro of Washington Times had Ichiro 6th. Marc Topkin of St. Petersburg Times had him 9th.

Mel Antonen, USA Today had Glaus 10th (nice power numbers, but only .252)

Dave Heuschkel, Hartford Courant had Damon 5th (love Johnny, but I wouldn't have had him THAT high...maybe a 9 or 10).

Cowley gave a 10th place vote to A. J. Pierzynski.

Allan Ryan, Toronto Star--an 8th to Alex.

Mark Gonzales, Chicago Tribune---9th place to Carl Crawford.

Danny Knobler, Detroit--6th to Giambi (a tad high, I think)

John Lowe, Detroit, 9th to Kenny Rogers

Kat O'Brien, Ft. Worth Star telegram...a 10th to Gary Matthews, Jr. (Michael Young, ok, but Matthews?)

Knobler had Jeter 4th.

I wasn't surprised to see both MN writers put Morneau first. I would have expected that. I was surprised to see that wasn't the case with the NY writers though.

I think Giambi had about as much of deserving reason to be on that vote list as Arod, that is to say none, lol.

Thanks for the catch on my goof. Hafner should have been in my No. 9 spot.

the solutions to all sports problems in the US is to just remove the role of media in the competition. The games are played on field. Their performance should decide who gets what. Not what people think about a player or a team. Eliminate all this voting ****. Not only in basball. In NCAA too.

This baseball season has made me sick. How does that jerk Cowley put Jeter 6th. Another writer had him in the 4th spot. Those two should be fired. I take absolutely no stock in postseason awards anymore. I would say players and coaches should vote, but players voted Jeter the most overrated player in baseball last year in a Sports Illustrated poll. Jealousy *****.

Most writers take these votes seriously, and do a good job with them. Players would not.

Guys like Cowley give writers a bad name. Don't lump all writers in with guys like him.

I have to say many of the writers apparently do little work to make their decisions. Yet some take it very seriously, as Pete described what he does I think, sadly, they are the exceptions.

Maybe it is the result of the whole dumbing down of America discouraging reading and investigation.

Cowley's thinking was simple; wrong but simple. Morneau first (he's a midwesternor, of course Morneau is first) The reasons he gave? His power numbers and leading the league in game winning RBI. Ortiz I believe was 2nd though I did not look. He was under the impression the redsox were in the race until mid september and thanks to ESPN was aware that ortiz was the statistical best hitter in the 7th inning and beyond....Obviously defense, batting average, average with risp and clutch stolen bases do not factor into his mind.

Thomas, more power numbers. Hafner, more power numbers, are we noticing a trend yet? He thought a rod was better than jeter this year, do you know why? Power numbers.

Remember that quote by ortiz that ortiz himself had to take back becasue it shows his own personal stupidity? About how if he hits 40 hrs and 100 rbi people will know how he's helping his team? Yeah, Cowley bought every word of it. It is evident that cowley went down the line with guys he didn't watch, which he admitted Jeter was one and just looked at the numbers.

Hence why his comment was "oh yeah I bet Jeter's 14 hrs really powered the yankees when they needed offense." and "Thomas had more hrs and rbi's than Jeter!".

He looked at numbers because he is an incompetant fool, plain and simple, he couldn't cite that jeter had two game winning or saving hits againt the redsox alone in august. Then when he was corrected he said the redsox weren't out of contention for another month, so it didn't matter and ortiz was more clutch anyway. Not realizing they were 6.5 games out after that 5 game series, not admitting it was the turning point in the season and not understanding the sox never sniffed closer after that. All he kept saying was Ortiz had "freakish" numbers, like A rod in 2002 (when he openly admitted he had a rod 5th and not 2nd) so 3rd place did not matter. Followed by "This is not only the numbers ortiz put up this year, but last year too"....Not realizing the lifetime achievement award is not the MVP, something many anti NY voters seem to not understand.

Yes, Mark, it is not fair to say all sportswtiters.

Yet I notice a stark drop in quality when you are not covering the Yankees. Ryan Mink has a good writing style but is apparently adverse to fact checking. There is a free lancer who also submits Yankee stories who seems to be very sloppy with the facts.

It is a matter of doing your job to the best of your ability or just skating by. I see people in my profession who just skate by and don't work for the client.

Angel, Newsday is a tabloid in format, as opposed to a broadsheet but it has been a world class newspaper for its history on aa plateu just below the formerly great NY Times, Washington Post, LA Times.

Davidoff is a writer who has a vote but did not vote in the MVP one. He probably voted stupidly in another race. Sherman of the Post is a voter I believe, bit no idea if the SI guy, Taylor, has a vote. He seems dumb enough that he may even be an officer of the association.

Oh ok he had Ortiz 5th, and Santana 3rd. Even better, so he said morneau is irreplaceable but then has another twin over jeter who he also considers irreplaceable? Not saying much for 22 players on that team, one of them torii hunter. Oh and I say 22 because Mauer also finished in the top ten, does anybody see aproblem with this logic?

Vince, I think it is safe to say that Ortiz brainwashed some people with his August comments, just as you mentioned that Cowley bought into every word of it.

I will bet you that Cowley would have trouble naming the MVP of previous years or the history of the award. Unlike myself, he probably has no clue what the Chalmers or League awards were or who won them. He would have no clue what the 1947 or 1955 controversies were about, much less how Mantle got shafted in 1958. He may know about the royal shafting the writers gave Belle in 1995.

Give me his vote. I'll do far better.

These baseball writers are the same ones who have not allowed Don Mattingly and Rich Gossage into the Hall of Fame.

Mattingly's numbers are quite similar to Kirby Puckett's. I think Kirby was deserving so is Donnie Baseball.

Absolutely no reason on earth Rich Gossage is not in the Hall already other than incompetent bumbling writers with a bias against NY players.

Some will say Mattingly is not deserving. I disagree. His career was cut short by injury as were some others who did make it into the Hall.

That does not even take into account Ron Guidry. He only had 170 wins, but for 9 years he was the most dominent pitcher in baseball.

I am pretty sure Sherman does have a vote - although it wasn't for MVP this year, I think I recall Peter saying that the NY writers split the awards up to vote.

I thought Newsday was more of a tabloid, but I am unsure of this - I will admit I only see whats posted online and not the actual paper. Are they considered a "NY newspaper" like Peter's Journal News is?

I dont see why guys who write online for MLB.com couldnt be considered to have votes. After all, they write about baseball as much as newspaper writers do (sometimes it seems like they write more!) and know the game and the players as well as(if not better)these guys. I was relieved to hear how Peter makes his decision on his vote - he obviously takes it seriously - so I hold out hope that other writers arrived at their conclusions having given it serious thought. It's absolutely clear from Mark's list that he put more thought into his (unconsidered) votes than Joe Cowley put into deciding what he had for breakfast this morning, let alone his MVP votes, lol.

What strikes me Vince, and I said it already, is that he had two DHs (Ortiz and Thomas) who a) don't play the field and b) clog up the basepaths if they don't HR ahead of Jeter. Inexcusable.

Yes, Paul. Check out Dizzy Dean's career. 150 wins. Injured at the age of 26 in the 1937 All Star Game. Yes, Dean had 30 wins and was the 1934 MVP. Check out how many great years Dean had. Anyone who wants to argue about different people in/out of the HOF should look at Dean's career.

Is anyone else worried that between Johnson, Pavano, and Mussina we may need another starter just to cover the time they're gonna miss with injury related problems? I know we have Hughes, Sanchez, Karsten, and Rasner but I just find it scary that we may need to rely on one or more rookie starters next season. We might get a Verlander out of it, or we might get a Sean Henn out of it. It kind of concerns me.

Newsday is a NY paper, centered on Long Island. I grew up on Long Island and thus read it everyday. Moving to Boston I missed it a lot until I could get it online and now I read it frequently.

I tend to read Newsday now more for the sports than the news but I do read news stories too.

Newsday used to be part of the LA Times Syndicate and is now owned by Tribune which also owns a lot of newspapers.

I think Peter's paper is owned by Gannett.

Hmm.. I stand corrected about Newsday, Paul. I still think the content of all those articles was ludicrous, and no one else outside of NY appears to be writing them. I have my theories on why Jeter didnt win.. maybe I'll post them later, lol.

I checked out the Fox Sports comments on this topic.. holy cow I can not believe some of the comments on there. I had no idea there were so many people out there who subscribed to the "Jeter is overrated" school of thought. Incredible.

Do you guys have players that you think shouldn't be in the HOF that are?

Ken Rosenthal wrote an interesting story. I was going to link it here but I cannot recall if I did since I have been multitalking sort of.

I think I read that, if the one I read is the one you are referring to. It was an interesting article. It was interesting how he and Dayn Perry had such polar opposite views. Just when I think Dayn Perry can't surprise me, he writes something like he did and knocks me off my chair. I thought for sure he'd agree or at the very least be ambivalent about the vote.

Do your chain hang low?

Yes, I just read Perry's article and it is rare that I agree with him, but I do.

I thought Jeter's real competition was with Joe Mauer.

Mauer had a tremendous year. He contributed far more to his team than his batting average.

Vince, chain?

Angel, I cannot think of anyone who should NOT be in the Hall of Fame at this moment. I feel that inducting 1 or 2 a year is too few and should be 4-6 depending on the quality of the pool.

There are many non-Yankees I think should be in. I was a strong advocate of Bruce Sutter who did just get in but there are some who have dropped off the list and are no longer eligible whom I think should have made it.

lol every so often I like to pump some modern pop culture into this blog Paul.

Wow the Angels are paying $50 million for 5 yrs for Garry Matthews, Jr. He is 32, hit .313 in what they called a breakout year with 79 RBI.

I am in the wrong business.

Vernon Wells might get a $1 billion contract.

I dont often agree with Perry either. Having seen a lot of Twins games, I would agree with you that Mauer was a bit more important/valuable to the Twins this year. I've often thought he had a bit of bias against the Yankees. The funny thing is that a lot of the comments that were blasting Dayn Perry accused him of favoring the Yankees and having an east coast bias. So maybe that is the only article of his they've ever read, lol

The market is crazy!

What kind of contracts are you going to get Swo and I, Paul? Seeing these numbers, I imagine you could get quite a lot for us seeing as we've both been *owned* by some random anonymous fruitcake on the internet! :-)

You are not owned until we sign on the dotted line.

I know this won't make me popular, but Mattingly does not belong in the Hall.

Yes, his numbers are virtually identical to Puckett, but where some say that Donnie's career was cut short, it wasn't. He played through the bad back for the last five years of his career, and his numbers suffered. Puckett's eye problem forced him to retire while he was still putting up big numbers. Had Puckett played a few more years, he would have had much better numbers than Mattingly, while Mattingly had seen his numbers decline badly in his final seasons.

We'll get to this discussion more when the new class is announced in January.

Well come on then.. no more skating by as our agent. Show me the money!! Even if its just foil wrapped chocolate coins, I want to see some $$$s, lol.

Gossage, on the other hand, should absolutely be in the Hall. It's a joke that he's not. Hopefully he'll get in soon.

I was also surprised by Dayn Perry's column. I totally expected him to be happy that Jeter got robbed.
In my opinion, it all comes down to power numbers. If Jeter hit 50 homeruns and drove in 120 RBIs, but made 37 errors in the field and stole -17 bases, he'd be MVP...why? Power numbers. It seems like power is more valued than the so-called intangibles...smart base-running, clutch bloopers, face-smashing dives into the stands to catch a seemingly harmless pop-foul. Correct me if I'm wrong, but A-Rod didn't fling himself into the stands to catch that pop-foul. I distinctly remember seeing him frozen in time with his shoulders bunched in an "ouch" cringe while Jeets is diving model-face first into the seats.

As far as Morneau not being the MVP of his own team, I'd have to agree with Perry (and others) there. Sure, he's a great player, but you know...I would feel less robbed (on Jeter's behalf, since he apparently doesn't feel robbed...at least not publicly) if the MVP went to Mauer or Santana.

As it stands, Jeter won't say anything bad about anyone (Ortiz could take a lesson here) and will not publicly say he got robbed, so I will take it upon myself to say he got robbed.

However, I'd take a World Series championship over a regular-season award any day. I just wish Jeets could get his individual props sometime.

I agree with Mark, actually, plus the 2 rings can't hurt Puckett.

Donnie almost should have quit when he started having those back problems rather than play through them. It marred what was before his injuries started to affect his playing ability, a HOF-potential career. Kirby went out while he was putting up numbers that allowed him to be considered more seriously.

Yes Vince, the fact he has two rings, definitely helps his case over Donnie. Of course its not all about rings, but I'm sure its marginally taken into consideration when the stats are at face value as close as they are.

Donnie is my husband's favorite player ever (along with Graig Nettles)and even though it pains him, he agrees with Mark.

Who knows, maybe Donnie will get in the HOF one day as a manager. :-) It would be nice to see that.

Or maybe it will be one of his sons...

I'm calling it now, no matter what people have said, Jeter will win the MVP before his career is over. In that season he will bat .457, with 26 homeruns, 128 RBI's, and 44 stolen bases. Cowley will still vote him 7th because 6 other players will have hit 27+ homeruns. Ortiz will hit 10 homeruns that season, but have on OBP above .500 since the Red Sox would have gotten rid of Manny, and no one will pitch to him. At that point, A-Rod will be 4 for 118 in postseason appearances since 2005. Morneau would have sold his MVP award for booze, and both Mauer and Santana will be on the Yankees. Also, Mark will be found to have heavy mafia connections, and will be arrested along with Whitey Bulger whom he's been hiding in his house. Alright, enough with the future predictions.

Considering that if Mattingly had stopped playing he would have had a better chance at the Hall then I still think he belongs in the Hall.

I am trying to remember some of the others who are not in whom I think are deserving. Bert Blyleven is one that comes to mind.

Also Andre Dawson is another. Jim Rice and Lee Smith also.

A glaring one is Tommy John, whom I think pitched for 26 seasons.

Its official. Matthews has signed a five year deal with the Angels.

haha.. everytime I see Bert Blyleven's name it makes me crack up. It reminds me of hearing him swear like a sailor on one of his broadcasts this year - when he thought they were off air. It was funny.

Whitey Bulger is living with Bernard Law in Rome.

maybe u should be in the hall just for pitching that long.

hahah fernando.

if the twins do not resign santana, with all of the huge salaries we will have shed and all the rookie ones we would have taken, does anybody have any idea how insane that bidding will be? Santana will be 29.

Consider this, I think after the 2008 season santana is up.

Giambi, posada, rivera, mussina, abreu, johnson, farnsworth's salaries will all be up I believe, with a rod damon and matsui having one more year.

Cano will still not hit the big bucks because of arbitration, neither will melky or wang, or proctor.

Hughes clippard sanchez whoeever else will be on the payroll cheap and probably good.

A lot of money.

Oh and Pavano off the payroll too

Morneau is said to be very superstitous about things he did in a game before he hit a homerun and tries to repeat them.

He also wears a Vancouver Canuck jersey bearing the name of Todd Bertuzzi. Bertuzzi was the NHL player suspended for 17 months for taking a cheap shot on another player. I think it ended the other guys' career.

Nice guy to have as a hero. Miinnesota Twiin fans must be very proud.

LOL, Fernando, but you really think ARod will get 3 more postseason hits?

Not sure that is possible.

Cowley also voted Pierzinski 10th, which means he felt there were 3 guys seperating the value of AJ (keeping in mind he also had dye on the list) from Jeter (no other yankees) and he felt the twins were a 3 person team (excluding Torii Hunter) and though a team should be in competition, ortiz finished ahead of jeter. If the argument was the yankees ran away with the division and they did not need Jeter, than why the **** is Thomas ahead of Jeter? And again, why are any whitesox on the list at all?

No the real question is why is Cowley allowed to vote?

I mean dye didn't put up any "freakish" numbers and he finished ahead of Jeter on a 3rd place team, oh wait, where is cowley writing from again?

I have a new enemy. I may have to blog about him.

I'll say this, if A-Rod gets some clutch hits next season all the hatred he's shown will blow over.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/stng_article.search?page_size=20&query=joe+cowley&pub=cst

That is the list of Cowley's most recent stories.

I bet he stole some of them.

Fernando, I hope he gets plenty of them, except when his team plays the Yankees.

He already has two contradicting headlines. One saying nobody was safe and another saying William's bluff was genius....He didn't do anything, therefore Williams, like most of chicago's baseball world, is an idiot.

I wish I could eliminate 2004-2006 from the record.

Nice Paul! But unfortunately you know just as well as I do that when opening day begins next season A-Rod will be sporting his unlucky number 13 jersey to the 4 spot behind Giambi and hit into a double play with Damon and Jeter on base.

Argggggh!

Paul, you have to look at the positives of next season. For example, Pavano will be very close to coming back from his injuries.

and the redsox right fielder, catcher, shortstop, curt schilling, josh beckett and matsuzaka will all gain team chemistry on the disabled list.

....as will Joe Cowley when i'm through with him.

Reviewing...my paper is a Tribune paper...terrible.

There are lots of HOF in who shouldn't be...some of the worst were ones inducted in the early 1970s...it seemed like Frankie Frisch got a lot of his cronies in at that time.

Still catching up while I cook some food.

There are lots in the HOF who shouldn't be (Maranville, Dean, Tinker, Evers) and others who aren't who should be (Gossage, Rice, Kaat, John, Blyleven...)

5 yrs./50 mil for Matthews is nuts.

Paul, here we go again...You mentioned A-Rod and hitting with RISP. He hit .302 with RISP and had a .431 OBP. He hit .474 with the bases loaded. Can we please put fact ahead of perception? Yes, A-Rod had many opportunities for RBI. But without performance opportunities mean nothing.

BTW "Mr. Clutch" Ortiz hit .288 with RISP.

I know you were being facetious about this but Sal Fasano hit .167 with RISP. Had he had as many AB's as A-Rod in those situations he would have had about 35-40 RBI.

Oops, sorry, you said Stinnett, not Fasano. Hmm, wonder why I got them mixed up...

Mike, you beat me to Tinker and Evers! They're probably the only guys to be elected to the HOF because of a poem.

I don't really have a problem with Maranville. He wasn't a great hitter, but in his day shortstops seldom were. He was among the best at his postition for 20 years or so, that's good enough for me. Same with Aparicio, Rizzuto, and Reese.

"mandel, when are you going to stop being so anti buckeye and so pro Trojan"

-As long as I'm single, I don't think I'll ever stop being pro Trojan.

I think that is the funniest mailbag comment I have ever seen

Wrong, Andy. Sal was holding back so ARod would not look bad.

I have a big problem with Maranville. .258 is lower than the others. I know the equipment wasn't the greatest back then, but four years of over 50 errors.

Another thing to consider with players like Maranville is WHEN they got in. Maranville was put in the HOF in 1954. He died of a heart attack 1-5-54. There are several like him who got in on the sympathy vote the year they died. A Clemente was deserving. A Maranville, not.

Maranville, 1912-1935, all NL.

Wagner retired in 1917. Beginning of Maranville's career. Probably the best of them all.

During Maranville's time, as far as NL SS, I'd take Dave "Beauty" Bancroft and Travis Jackson. Both are in the HOF. Jackson .291, Bancroft .279. Maranville, had the highest FA of the three.

Hornsby came up as **** before switching over.

Durocher (no-hit) and Arky Vaughan were up near the end of Maranville's career.

Ironically, voters to this day still say Maranville's .258 is the lowest by a HOF. It is not.

They forget that Harmon Killebrew hit .256.

We should vote Jeter into the hall of fame now, and just get it over with.

I think we should sign Craig Wilson to fill in our back up catcher and first base roll. Sure he strikes out a lot, but when he does connect its always a homerun.

It wouldbe crazy if there was a society veto on an award and like 80% of the fan's vote can overturn the writers

Fernando, Wilson had 2 HR as a Yankee and nearly 400 strikeouts. Or so.

Great article by Ian O'Connor of the Journal News, as recommended by Pete Abraham.

http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061122/COLUMNIST03/611220385/1108/SPORTS01

Yes, but he also only had two hits with the Yankees, which means that he hits 100% homeruns. You can't pass on that kind of power.

Plus he always looks angry, and we could use that.

Rome is buring (minus jim rome....pete rose ruiner jim grey is filling in) is RIPPING the mvp vote

hahah and they called cowley an idiot which I love.

hahahah Jim grey is soooooo bad trying to be Jim rome

while im in a hating mood, add jessica simpson to the list, what ***** cannot do a southern dialect when they are freaken from the south. That point still irks me.

Here is Mattingly compared to 4 other HOF corner infielders, 2 firstbasemen and 2 third basemen, ranked by OPS:

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/historical/player_stats.jsp?statType=1&HS=true&HS=true&c_id=mlb&isCompare=true&venueID=&timeSubFrame=0&timeSubFrame=0&timeSubFrame=0&timeSubFrame=0&timeSubFrame=0&timeSubFrame=0&timeSubFrame=0&timeSubFrame=0&box3=XXXX118443XXXX&box5=XXXX116913XXXX&box6=XXXX110480XXXX&baseballScope=mlb&teamPosCode=all&timeFrame=3&box4=XXXX116942XXXX&sitSplit=&checkBoxTotal=0§ion1=8&box1=XXXX111266XXXX&sortByStat=OPS&HS=true&compare.x=&statSet1=1

Of course these are just batting stats and don't take into account fielding ability. I don't think it's a stretch (so to speak d;>) to say Mattingly's fielding was HOF-caliber.

Vince, fill me in on what Gray had to say.

...and considering Cowley is from the same paper that has Jay Marriotti, all I can think of that is that they were two peas in a pod (Mariotti, who usually is ridiculous on Around the Horn, was ridiculous on it yesterday....seemed like he was defending Cowley).

It's hard to compare him to Frank "Home Run" Baker because of the dead ball era. Baker did win 4 HR titles. Together with Eddie Collins they were the dominant offensive forces of the 1910-1914 Phila. Athletics who won four pennants and 3 WS in 5 years. You have to give Baker that.

Try to be back later...

Have a nice holiday, all.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Baker. Just saying Mattingly has as good (or better) HOF credentials as some that are in. One way to look at it is, if he were elected would it lower the HOF standard? I don't think so.

lol it is not so much what he was saying (since it was meant for rome) it is the way he delivered it was plain awful.

LOL, Morneau likes Todd Bertuzzi? That's hilarious...

Whenever my brothers and I would play NHL 2006, our main goal against the Canucks was to find the biggest defenseman possible and go after Bertuzzi the whole time...slashing and elbowing the whole way. You win the contest if you're able to give him the "Bertuzzi Smash" and crush his vertebrae. Unfortunately, none of us have won yet, but I've come close...

We don't even like the guy whose career he ended, we just hate Bertuzzi that much......

I still can't get over the fact that our Captain did not the AL MVP.

Well, I'm out for now. I'll try to be back later.

Swo, idk if you saw but last night Vince and I were discussing the possibilities of what the "Colgate" in your email address is for...We settled that either you go to Colgate or you're a toothpaste sales rep.

From MLB.com:
ST. PETERSBURG -- The Devil Rays released right-handed pitcher Doug Waechter on Wednesday.

Waechter, 25, split last season between the Rays and Triple-A Durham. He opened the season in the Rays' rotation and went 1-4 with a 6.62 ERA in 11 games (10 starts). He was optioned to Durham on June 7 and went 1-12 with an 8.32 ERA in 17 games (15 starts) for the Bulls. He underwent right shoulder surgery on Oct. 11 with an expected recovery time of eight to 10 months.

I wouldn't be surprised if some GM offers Waechter's agent a 6 year-$120 million deal. That's how things are looking alike

Hi, All:

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone! Look forward to talking and debating about the moves made in the remainder of the Hot Stove League, and continuing it through spring training and the 2007 season! Everyone have a great holiday!

Jeff

www.bosoxbanter.mlblogs.com

Jorge, hoping the Red Sox sign him as their closer.

I would like to know what these voters are thinking. (Anti-Yankees) Jeter hands down was the best player in baseball for the 2006 season, no disbute. Morneau had a great season, not to take anything away from him. Jeter had a historical season which helped the Yanks win the East by a landslide. Let's face it, in June through August we had minor league players step it up and play great baseball. Who was there, Derek Jeter. Look at his numbers. Come on people, if he was an Angel he would have won the MVP by a landslide. I am tired of Anti-Yankee sentiment. Sure, we spend lots of money for players. WE WANT TO WIN. SO WHAT! So does that mean great players such as Jeter should get cheated? I think not. For those "writers" who voted against Jeter, watch him on a daily basis and maybe pay attention. You'll change your mind.

A Happy Thanksgiving to all who celebrate the holiday!

If you spend it with family or friends, if you are home or working, travel safely and best wishes.

Happy Thanksgiving! Don't want to go on too long but I've been holding this in for days. Jeter was straight up robbed. Morneau had a fine year, but this is clearly backlash towards Jeter and the Yankees. However, keep in mind, he's a 4x champion (to date), WS MVP, all star MVP, 2x gold glove winner, career .300 plus hitter, and will finish with more then 3000 hits. Sure HOF five years after retirement. He was legacy, Morneau has new hardware. Now he's dating Jessica Biel. Long term, no need to feel bad for the captain.