Rolling the dice

Absolutely agree, Mark. Matsuzaka may become a great major league pitcher, but $100 million is a lot to gamble when there are so many question marks. I don't think I'd pay that much even for an established ace like Santana.

AL manager of Year: Leyland
Torre 4th

NL manager of Year: Girardi

Randolph 2nd.

Wow, Andy, you saved my prediction from 2 months ago? Did you also save the 213712983982 ones that were wrong?

Posted by: paul1040@aol.com | November 15, 2006 08:47 AM

Maybe that's what made the one right one stand out in my memory d;>

Don't let anyone ever tell you that your predictions are ALWAYS wrong ("I remember back in aught-six...")

It was a downright Yankee-like move by the Red Sox. Crazy spending. Maybe he'll be the Japanese Pedro. Maybe he'll be an Irabu-like bust, though every single scout and baseball executive who has been talking about him will be proved wrong if that's the case. It's sure going to be fun watching it develop though.

I think Daisy will be the next Pedro. He seems to have the tools.

Congratulations to the Eviler Empire on getting him. The Yankees are a small market team and cannot afford to compete with such deep pockets. Home grown talent will lead the Yankees to another division title.

Andy, hope you have lumps in your porridge.

Kei Igawa is still to be posted soon. It should take far less for his posting fee, but then who knows?

He seems like one of good potential, and a LHP, which is a prized commodity.

After I publicly pointed out your prognosticating prowess?

Bobby Valentine on Igawa:

Translates into a 12 game winner (4 or 5 starter) for a team w/a good offense.

The question is would you pay $20M/year (best case for Boston) for a pitcher with ERA close to 3 in Japan. I wouldn't. Even his win loss record is 100-60 over 200 starts. If a player warrants that kind of money based on 3 starts in WBC, good luck.

I wouldn't count on Igawa...the Red Sox might bid a good 51.05 million on him.

Andy, I wished you lumps, nothing like that worm in the eye that made us all sick last night.

Mike, a 12 game winner hardly seems worth the paperwork. Yet strangely enough many teams would welcome one of them.

Red Sox fans are crowing how their team is so much better now. On the Newsday blog one posted how they got a pitcher 3 times better than the best on the Yankees.

I think Daisy Mat will be very good but the math is striking me as rather impossible, even if you factor in the Yankee's 3rd best pitcher.

This move will make the Red Sox decidedly more competitive and they may not fall into 4th place this year behind the surging Devil Rays.

Not getting Matsuzaka is fantastic, although Steinbrenner is probably throwing a fit. From the start, in my opinion, this had Jose Contreras and Hideki Irabu written all over it. Lets see him handle the Yankees 1-9 before we put him in the hall of fame.

It's not the lumps that bother me, it's the porridge.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6173822

That article hit the spot.

Swo posted an excellent link to a Sean McAdam article on the previous thread. For those who missed it, check it out.

Bobby V brought up very good points. As we already know this is now a 5 man rotation, not a 6, but Dmat will also be throwing far less pitches. What we forget is in japan the lineups are easy outs after the 6 batter at best, and i didn't realize d mat is not a strikeout pitcher. He is capable of it (like wang) but he is mostly a soft contact guy. It will be interesting to see if the contact stays soft, and if it doesn't, how he will react. Mike says for the deal to be worth it, matsuzaka has to be as good as wang....I disagree, seeing as wang costs practically nothing for a 19 game winner in his 2nd year. They are the same age though so I guess rotation wise, I understand what he meant.

Matsuzaka is going to be good, but for that price he's not worth it. No matter how good a pitcher is they can only pitch once every 5 days. I mean $100 million dollars over the course of 4 years? That's too much even for the Yankees. I say we stay the course and develop that farm. Let's get Sanchez and Hughes out there. If we can get Zito than fine, but let's see what these young guys can do.

Mark, thanks for the article on the main Yanks page letting us know the Post's report on Moose's re-signing was a false alarm.
Auuurrrgh, when is this deal gonna get done already?! (I know, I know...next week.)

Vince, interesting stuff about Dmat's pitches and what type of pitcher he is. It'll be fun indeed to see if contact stays soft in the heavy-hitting AL East! :)

Zito was not the answer before the Red Sox got Matsuzaka and still is not.

Though I think the Yanks need a LHP as a starter and after major surgery and another year of service, Randy Johnson is not likely to have an impact.

It's nice to see the national media recognizing the hypocrisy of the Red Sox' complaining about the Yankees' methods, then emulating them.

aside: If I never hear the phrase "stay the course" again, I'll be ecstatic.

Today was the Yank's deadline to either pick up the Mussina option or pay the buyout.

Does this mean he can be taken by another team while negotiating with the Yanks and they have to pay the buy out?

Does the buyout get included in the salary subject to the luxury tax?

Does the $4 million the Yanks sent with Wright count toward the tax also?

Ka-ching!

All over the news is the alleged book by OJ Simpson, allegedly called "If I Did It, Here's How It Happened."

Allegedly interviewers are linking up to talk with him about it.

Ka-ching!

Interesting questions (about Moose) Paul. I would think he would not be able to be signed by another team while negotiating with the Yanks because he never filed for free agency, did he?

This could be a Mike/Stat-o-matic® Question:

Which World Series winning teams included that season's soon to be announced league MVP as part of that team?

Yes, he did file, Gina.

From 1931 to now?

1931 Frankie Frisch

1933 Carl Hubbell

1934 Dizzy Dean

1935 Hank Greenberg

1936 Lou Gehrig

1939 Joe Dimaggio

1940 Frank McCormick

1941 Joe Dimaggio

1942 Mort Cooper

1943 Spud Chandler

1944 Marty Marion

1945 Hal Newhouser

1946 Stan Musial

1947 Joe Dimaggio

1948 Lou Boudreau

1950 Phil Rizzuto

1951 Yogi Berra

1954 Willie Mays

1955 Roy Campanella

1956 Mickey Mantle

1957 Hank Aaron

1960 **** Groat

1961 Roger Maris

1962 Mickey Mantle

1963 Sandy Koufax

1964 Ken Boyer

1966 Frank Robinson

1967 Orlando Cepeda

1968 Denny McLain

1970 Boog Powell

1973 Reggie Jackson

1975 and 1976 Joe Morgan

1979 Willie Stargell (tied for MVP award)

1980 Mike Schmidt

1983 Cal Ripken, Jr.

1984 Guillermo Hernandez

1988 Kirk Gibson

1989 Rickey Henderson

Continue in next post.

Oops...Rickey won in 1990, not 1989. Scratch him.

Last one to date to be MVP on a WS winning team was Kirk Gibson...

Chalmers award (1911-1914)

1912 Larry Doyle, NY Giants

1914 Johnny Evers Boston Braves

League Award

1923 Babe Ruth

1924 Walter Johnson

1926 Bob O' Farrell

1927 Lou Gehrig

I think I went back and doublechecked two or three.

The rest where from my memory bank.

***were***

Wow, Mike, yoiu are amazing!

Thanks!

There were many more than I thought. My preliminary supposition was that teams that won the World Series did not have an MVP on the team.

Though since 1988 that is the case. No team winning since 1988 has an MVP winner.

Cy young winners on WS champs

1958 Bob Turley

1960 Vernon Law

1961 Whitey Ford

1963 Sandy Koufax

1965 Sandy Koufax

1968 Denny McLain

1969 Tom Seaver

1974 Catfish Hunter

1977 Sparky Lyle

1978 Ron Guidry

1980 Steve Carlton

1981 Fernando Valenzuela

1984 Guillermo Hernandez

1985 Bret Saberhagen

1988 Orel Hershiser

1995 Greg Maddux

2001 Randy Johnson

Let me doublecheck the Cy's...I didn't cheat.

Got them all.

Missed one. Oops. Warren Spahn in 1957!!!

I wouldn't feel too bad about getting outbid by the Red Sox for K-Mat. The move honestly looks pathetic to me, not quality. Good teams develop talent from within, not throwing insane amounts of money around people who have yet to throw a big league pitch.

http://baseballspikes.mlblogs.com

After yesterday's discussion I had to post this. Today's entry for the future Darwin Award winner:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15737511/

NY Yankee President Randy Levine announced today that the NY Yankees will begin accepting blind bids to negotiate a contract with them for Carl Pavano starting immediately.

Bids will close at 5PM EST on Friday, November 17, 2006. The Yankees will have 4 minutes to decide whether to accept the bid. At that time special assistant to the President, Howard Spira, will leave to deliver to you Mr. Pavano, his effects, and keys to the handcuffs.

Any questions please contact Mr. Levine's office at 1-800-CARL2GO.

Paul:
You can bet that if Theo Epstein read your anouncement, then he will make a bid for Pavano for at least $378.8 million dollars.

By the way, what a week for Theo. First, looking terrible when we knew that Hanley Ramírez won the NL ROY Award. As we can remember, Hanley AND Aníbal Sánchez were traded by Theo to the Marlins for Josh Beckett. What a BRILLIANT trade.
Then, making that absolutelly illogical bid for D-Mat.

We have to feel really happy having Cashman and not Epstein as our General Manager

I'm sure Brian Cashman would never trade Hughes and Clippard for Julián Tavárez

Epstein is still riding 2004, and it's pathetic. It's good to see ESPN and other people are finally catching on to the fact that he might not be so bright after all.

Mike or anyone who has seen Clippard pitch in person, which current or retired ML pitcher does he remind you of?

Exactly, Swo. The facts prove he's not the golden boy he was expected to be

There is something extremely methodical, and at the same time, unorthodox and chaotic about Clippard's delivery. I can't think of any current pitchers whom he reminds me of though. Maybe Mike has some insight.

Yea fellow yankees fans...still stewing over this matsuaka thang. NOT because we didn't bit 50 million because believe me its not worth it. The Yankees are moving the right direction and i'm looking forward to our farm system for the years to come. But the reason i'm made is because just last year Theo was crying how the Red Soxs don't have Yankee money. NOW, look at them. The Red Soxs and Theo/Luccino are uncle toms. I have a friend who is a RS fan and I told him he can't call us the evil empire or ***** bc the Yankees spend $ and he still things the RS are the liittle poor rivals. NO WAY. 50 million just to talk to someone is ridculous. I hope they change bc if I can't chant "1918" then we can't be called the evil empire! Return of the Jedi RED **** NATION!

CONGRATS...do EMMITT SMITH...the ALL TIME NFL RUSHING LEADER and now the CHAMPION OF DANCING WITH THE STARS!!! YESSS!!! The best rusher ever in the NFL!!! No one will pass him!! My most favorite Cowboy of all time!!!! Nice Job Emmitt!!!!

No back to baseball......

can't spell...*now.....

How many people here think the yanks should have bid more than they did?

I think the bid was perfectly in-line. I would not have minded at all if they bid what they did (30-32 mil) and lost to the Mets bid at 38 mil. It's putting in a reasonable 30-32 mil bid and losing to an insane 51.1 mil bid that stinks.

About Clippard...I haven't seen him, but from the scouting reports and stats I have seen, he averages over a strikeout an inning not because he has a blazing fastball, but because he has a good, deceptive change.

One thing I read about Zito...we all know he relies on the curve. I read a report today that said his fastball was averaging about 86---4th slowest among starters on the list---about Paul Byrd fastball. Just a bit worried about that curve in Fenway or Camden Yards. If it's on, great....if it hangs...well, we know how close those LF fences are.

Frank Thomas possibly headed to Blue Jays to DH...

which could open the A's DH spot to...

Barry Bonds.

Interesting. Stay tuned.

OK, time to move on from the Matsuzaka mess.

Here are some of the top remaining free agent starters and the problems they bring with them.

Barry Zito-probably the best of the group, but will be overpriced and there are questions about his consistency.

Jason Schmidt-serious questions about durability, ability to pitch in the AL. Has had some not very good seasons. Not as young as Zito.

Andy Pettitte-love the guy, but he may retire or have little desire to come back to NY. Older than above 2 and didn't have a great year

Roger Clemens-too old, too much money, too brief a commitment, and probably doesn't want to come anyway

Gil Meche-young, intriguing, murders the Yankees, but the overall numbers are nothing to be impressed with at all

Kei Igawa-don't know much about him, but projected as a 4-5 and has never thrown a pitch in the MLB.

If there are notable pitchers you think I have omitted, feel free to tack a few on.

mlb.com mentions Dontrelle Willis trade rumors again. I think Willis, with his age and potential, is probably more appealling than any of the above pitchers. But, of course, he would have to come in a trade, and the Yanks would have to find something they are willing to give up that is not named Phillip Hughes.

Yanks were looking at Henry Blanco as backup C, but he went back to cubs.

Have a sore shoulder all day and just typing/mousing hurts...think I strained something. Catch you later.

How about Ted Lilly? AL East experience, former Yankee, and pitches well against the Red Sox.

Great MSNBC article, Andy. Yup that is Darwin Award material. I explored that Darwin site I linked last night and there is a lot of material.

Karl, let me not beat around the bush: NO NEW TAXES...oops, I mean NO MORE MARLINS PITCHERS!

Egad Willis had a mediocre year in the NL. Image in the AL East.

Swo, I like Lilly. I thought then and I still think it was a mistake to get rid of him, especially in getting the dud Weaver.

But everyone is clamoring for LHPs so the price may be high and the competition fierce.

Randy Wolf is out there but he is also an NL pitcher, and there is a guy on Milwaukee I hear is being shopped. And then Pittsburgh has a few good LHP, but once again NL pitchers.

The NL thing is not always bad. Jon Lieber, I think, was quite good in his one season and was actually outstanding in the stretch drive in 2004. Wasn't he 5-0 that September?

Willis I think not since he has a strange delivery and may throw his whole arm to the plate any day. Plus it is the whole Marlin thing.

Just looking at some stats, Lilly 2006 had 4.31 ERA, 179IP, 160K's, career ERA is 4.60. Zito had 3.83 ERA in 2006, 221IP and 151K's, career ERA 3.55. I don't know how much more Zito would be, but in my opinion, would rather have him. If Zito's fast ball is 86mph, Lilly's must be 56mph LOL and Zito is 2yrs younger. I was never really a Lilly fan to begin with. Also rather have Willis than Lilly if the price was right. However, the price of Zito probably will be through the roof...

What you talkin' 'bout, Willis?

I've always thought that Wolf is overrated. He has had only one season in his career with over 11 wins, and just came back late last year from TJ surgery.

I was looking at Lilly's stats myself. Interesting. Hearing talk of how he may go to west coast. (From CA, wife attending school out there).

Hey Swo, that's me on Pete's. I didn't want to use other because I didn't know you didn't need password/user id, and thought it might give you e-mail address. I already have so many passwords/ids for God knows how many things it's a pain in the ***. For another thing, there are sometimes that I don't want a name used. I'm busy looking for a job and what am I getting in my inbox? Not employers, but a bunch of stupid spam. I didn't want anymore so I went by anonymous (which I had the right to do) because I didn't want to open myself up to more of that ****. So now you understand.

BTW, you dont have to log in over at Peters. You can just use "other" and type in any old name you want. No email address needed or anything. Thats what I do, and most others - for exactly the same reason. My spam rate has quadrupled since my email was posted on this site. Grrr. I dislike the anonymous feature because overall its mostly abused by posters over there - who just want to take pot shots at people and ruin it for the people who don't do that.

Exactly Angel. I wasn't abusing it, in fact, from my posts here, you could probably figure out which ones were mine. I just wanted my privacy better protected because of some of the junk I'm getting.

I wish we could have Internet "restraining orders".

For the record, my last "anon" was 11/14, 9:10 pm, calling the 51.1 mil bid obscene.

Sigh, I wish this Mussina deal could get done already! Would make me feel soo much better!

I read some article that said the Yanks were looking at Meche.. why Meche? If we are gonna get someone who is on that next notch down below Zito, I definitely want it to be Lilly! I really hope they are considering signing him. He has already proven himself in the AL East and he's a lefty isnt he?

Jebus on Pete's blog someone is talking about trading Melky (and others I guess) to FL for D-Train. Sheeesh, did these people learn NOTHING from the Beckett fiasco?

Here is an interesting article from 2004 by a blogger who addresses the Folly Called Pavano.

http://cliffordsbrb.blogspot.com/2004_12_12_cliffordsbrb_archive.html

The anonymous poster irritate me also since many use that tio take shots at Pete, or other posters. There are a few intelligent Anonymous comments. Some of those may be yours.

I post on Pete's blog as Paul. It is easy for me to remember. Also use that on the Newsday blog. On Sam Borden's blog there was another one who used Paul who would usually post the opposite of what I would say.

People on other blogs are freaking out calling for the firing of Cashman, Torre, Steinbrenner, everyone else anywhere who has a job, because some team somewhere has signed a player the Yankees never wanted and Cashman did not grab him.

The postings are totally irrational and are often followed by ridiculous trade requests like Melky and Hughes and ARod and Jeter and Torre plus $400 million for Dontrelle Willis.

Some of those Yankee fans are scaring me.

It is posts like the following which totally baffle me:

Anonymous said...

The yanks could easily finish in 3rd place at this rate.

This might be one of the worst off-seasons in recent memory.

Are they even TRYING to improve?

11:56 PM, November 15, 2006

_____________________________

That was written on Nov. 15, as if they are beginning spring training with what they have now and Cashman will be on vacation til then.

I actually am pretty sure many of those posts are NOT from Yankee fans but could even be from "people" we have seen on this blog.

I want to know why you guys are spending so much time at Pete's blog! Traitors!

Just kidding. Pete's my boy.

Pete is a riot and he puts out snacks.

(HINT HINT HINT)

$51.1 million bucks on a guy who's never thrown a pitch in the major leagues... not the kind of deal I would have wanted the Yankees to make.

To live up for what he cost, Matsuzaka will have to go something like: 25-2 for however long his contract is.

The Yanks should concentrate on younger arms like Willis, Sanchez, or Wolf.

Zach

http://baseballmaniayankees.beeplog.com/

NO MORE MARLINS!

NO MORE MARLINS!

Posted by: paul1040@aol.com | November 16, 2006 11:35 AM

Even if they're called Aníbal Sánchez or Miguel Cabrera?

These were Alex Rodríguez' words yesterday, according to an article of our buddy Mark Feinsand:
"I love the challenges New York brings," Rodriguez said. "Last year was very challenging for me, personally, but I think New York wants to see people go through a tough time, fight through it and come out of it."

"I love being a Yankee," he continued. "I believe we're going to win with me being a Yankee, and I'm going to hopefully be a big part of it and be in the middle."

Agree, Alex

Can Bengie Molina play 1B? If yes we should trade for him. He will play 1B AND backup Jorge, with AP backing Bengie at 1B. or Victor Martinez.

Levelhead you seem to be a regular here now...do you have a name?...I support Lilly or Meche, but if we get meche no Sanchez in the deal...I would much rather prefer lilly who we could probably get for around 5 million, less than wright.

lol Vince. I am Vik.

Can you guys believe that the yankees have trimmed 27.5M of last years payroll already?

haha Vik, ok I knew something was up. I don't doubt if the yankees end up staying in the exact ballpark they were at the beginning of the offseason. In other words, spending about 25 million this offseason. I figure they resign Mussina and that is about 12 million, another starter makes about 18 million, a first baseman and you're looking at 23 million....a backup catcher and utility and you're back where you started? That would be awesome if we upgraded like that and the payroll didn't change, while the sox payroll will probably rise about 20-30 million minimum and essentially they will gain a starter and a closer.

Rumor Mill reports the Bosox are close to a 4 year, $48 mil deal with J.D. Drew.

Now I'm not questioning Drew's talent, but don't you find it strange that someone who wanted nothing to do with Philadelphia now would plunk himself into the Boston-NY rivalry?

I really wonder if he has the mental toughness to handle it. If he didn't want Philly, what would make him think Boston or NY would be ok?

Post today reporting Phils hot for Sori (I've been reading that all week, but what to do with no trade clause Burrell? I can't see Burrell/Sori in same OF. One Phils fan actually said to then trade Rowand. Oh really? With Burrell and Sori, they would NEED Rowand's D!)

Also, Sherman mentions what we discussed yesterday...Rockie interest in Pavano (I'd trade CP for a case of Guinness and a bottle of JD...Lol)

Yanks have interest in either retaining Villone or going after Schoeneweis. A wash there, if you ask me.

Orioles signed Jamie Walker away from Tigers.

Anyone see other rumors/hot stove talk from other sources? Please post.

Catch up on you all later.

Villone was amazing for the first half, but really fell apart in the second. Schoenweis was ineffective year round.

The smart thing for the sox to do would be to trade Manny to a team thats looking for a power hitting outfielder for the short term for good pitching or great prospects and use the money to sign Soriano or Carlos Lee. Anybody agree I should be a GM?

Personally, I think in a city like boston Matsuzaka will be great but not a cy young caliber pitcher, and Drew will bat about .240. The ONLY thing Bobby Valentine said he was cautious about was Matsuzaka's makeup under a lot of pressure like in boston or NY where you have nowhere to hide (particularly boston). I would love to see the Yankees own him even if he does well against the rest of the league. Pitching his first game at Yankee stadium will be unlike any playoff game he ever pitched over there. Plus Bobby V said sometimes he struggles locating his fastball. Then again, this year he may absolutely dominate the the next two years he may cool off and be something like a 15 game winner....Basically he has more potential than wang but the question is does he have Wang's intangibles?

Hey why don't they talk about Tyler Clippard getting a call next season? He pitched that no hitter in August, and 175 strikeouts in 166 innings. His ERA ended at 3.35. Seems like he would be a decent guy to get a look at next season.

Random thoughts:

I'm sure Clippard will get a call-up at some point next season, but he hasn't spent a day in AAA yet, so we'll see what happens. But no matter what does happen, I'm eager to see what he can do.

Did anyone read the quotes by Daisuke Matsuzaka? I don't think I've ever seen somebody so NOT excited about joining a new team. He talks about Boston's history in the same sentence as the rivalry with the Yankees. Makes you wonder which team he really wanted to join...... :-P

Mark, you should be glad that your blog is not like Pete's. And I'm not dissing Pete by any means, I just think it's safe to say that more of the ACTUAL Yankees fans have more of a tendency to post here. But it's rather irresistible to prove all those trolls wrong. Apparently Brian Cashman should be fired because of his "failure" this offseason. Simply hilarious.

Mike, my entry on Pete's blog wasn't necessarily directed at you, you just happened to be the one to prompt my comment. But like others have said, you don't have to worry about getting spammed because you don't have to register for Blogger. Just click on "Other" and enter your name. No registration required.

In the meantime, I'm excited to see what happens this offseason, as we all should be!

Pete's blog and Newsday's are full of Red Sox troll(s)with many names or Anonymous. One called Doctor something on the Newsday one is suggesting the Sox want Zito and the Yankees are being cheap instead of usually buying every big name.

But it really is a taunt of making it to the playoffs and failing.

I guess I cannot blame Red Sox fans excited about the potential Daisy acquisition which could avoid relegating them to a 4th place finish next season.

What cracks me up about comparing recent success: The sox since their world series title (the yankees backed up three of their 4 titles with another trip to the ws) they have no playoff victories and one appearence in two years of hype and first place projection. Last year what was it, 6 or 7 teams in the AL alone that finished ahead of them? Please.

Paul, you left "but probably won't" off your last sentence there. Just wanted to let you know.

:-D

Santana won the Cy Young. Real surprise there, huh?

The general consensus among Yankees fans here is that they'd be happy if the Yankees signed Ted Lilly (preferably) and went into next season with a rotation of Wang, Moose, Randy, Pavano, and Lilly/FA. Am I correct in saying this? Or are there other pitchers out there that can attract Yankees' attention?

I think there is a very solid case for Lilly to be signed, but given our current pitching depth, is it necessary to sign another FA starter? Or should we stick with the young guns? I know people want starting pitching, but I feel like people want both lots of FA pitching and lots of young starting pitching. Can't have it both ways, folks...

young starting pitching *from the farm.*

Santana unanimously CYA.

Wang 2nd.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061116&content_id=1741588&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

for link to the CY article.

Matsuzaka said he would be disappointed if the Red Sox won the bid, which they did.

Lilly or no Lilly, it all looks the same to me.

Got spam job offer. GRRRRR.

Got a spam from someone...I mean "Young Sheffield"????

Give me a break.

Swo the Randy and Pavano elements in that rotation are flashpoints of weakness. I would like to see him gone, sent away for anything.

I have trouble imagining RJ returning until mid-season and doubt his effectiveness.

Now the host of young upcoming talent may be the answer and I would be happy to see them all get shots.

I would be happy to see the Yankees pass on the entire free agent class of 2006.

The only free agent they went after whom I thought they should was Matsuzaka. They made a huge bid and lost. They tried their reasonable best. You cannot fault them for that effort at all.

I want Lilly. All we need is an inning eater for the back end of the rotation. Moose can give us 6-7 any given start, wang can give us 6-9, johnson needs a shadowed starter for when he fails, Pavano I still doubt, so karstens and rasner may need to be with the team, until Hughes is ready, which by then we will realize sturtze is terrible and he will be cut to make room for Hughes

I don't get excited for either karstens or rasner though so I wouldn't mind a 2nd free agent, as long as we give up nothing important. Then again maybe the answer to compliment wang, mussina and johnson/pavano is sanchez and hughes around midseason...But Do Not Rush Hughes.

Sturtze won't be back at all. He filed for FA and will be 37 next year and coming off major injury. Yanks won't want him back.

Ok good. Then both karstens and rasner I expect with the team, one as a fifth starter and one as long reliever.

wang

mussina

johnson

pavano

lilly

karstens

I expect at least one injury, if not three, so hughes and sanchez are nice insurance policies

I know i'm beating a dead horse but they can not absolutely whatsoever sign Zito, if they are going to go after a free agent it has to be Meche i think at this point.
STAY AWAY FROM ZITO

I'm kind of relieved that the Yankees didn't sign D-Mat. After all, the guy has never pitched in an MLB game or faced an AL East lineup. It's a huge gamble, in my opinion...and one I'm glad the BoSox are taking so that when the Yankees own him, they'll be kicking themselves for throwing $100 mil at an ineffective pitcher and still lose to the Yankees.

As far as free agents go...I don't know who I prefer that the Yankees sign. Like a lot of other posters here, I hope Cashman leaves room for some of the farm hands coming up.

I'd take a nickel for Pavano, just to get his bruised behind out of here.

The thing is, after Randy's contract is done, the Yankees have no lefty in the rotation. Lilly solves that problem, and I'd much prefer him over someone like Randy Wolf, and I don't really want to see them get Zito. Of course, most people don't either.

Most people meaning most Yankees fans, that is.
I really have to start proofreading my entries.

Well, I'm not generally one to celebrate second place (that's the duty of S*x fans, lol) but in this case I'll make an exception...
YAY Wang for being the runner up in Cy Young! for his first full year in the majors? Very impressive!!

Sure I wish he woulda won and all, but I'm just glad his excellence was recognized. Next year he will win it!

On an off-topic note, did any of you guys hear about this big storm that's supposed to hit PA/NJ/NY? They're saying it could cause floods and winds up to 80?!? It should be hitting here in Philly at like 5 and I'm at work right near the Delaware River...eeek. I'm leaving early to avoid getting caught in it during my commute, but my man's work won't let him leave early and I am kind of freaking out about it. :(

Everyone stay safe and stay dry!

My dorm here at Colgate is near a frequently overflowing creek that caused massive flood damage this past summer, supposedly. Luckily I live on the second floor! No promises, but I will try my best to stay dry!

Be careful, Gina.

I am waiting all day for the telephone repair people. Once this week they claimed they solved the problem. But I pointed out I could not hear them completely on the phone because of the problem they solved.

Waiting, waiting, waiting...

We just got slammed by a huge rainstorm but it seems to have cleared up now.

Yeh. I have a flash flood watch until 9 pm tonight.

Well I am home safe and sound! 4 block walk from the subway soaked me from head to toe..thank goodness for hot chocolate!

It is supposed to be heavy but short, and clear up by tomorrow morning--at which point the weather will actually be reflective of the week before Thanksgiving!

Not trying to not go w/the flow..but why do you all think Lilly is better than Zito? I don't see it....Zito's career ERA is almost a run lower, he pitched more than 40 innings than Lilly this year....is it the price of getting Zito over Lilly? I just think Zito is a cut above Lilly....just my opinion....hey Mark...go EMMITT!!!

The weird thing, Swo, on Pete's blog, is at the same time they post the identical entry on the Newsday blog using a male or at least a different name.

There are probably only about 25 of us who post there and the other 23897423894938482 people are all the same person, and all but 10 of those personalities are Anonymous.

.nosrep roctod taht ot gnirrefer saw I, legnA, oN

Russ, I would think because Lilly has toiled in the AL East and Zito in the AL West Zito's better numbers are discounted.

Zito would also cost a lot more.

Against the AL East:

____________________

Zito

vs Baltimore 1-0, 1.29

vs Boston 2-1 5.51

vs NY 1-2 8.16

vs Tampa 0-0 3.85

vs Toronto 1-0 5.40

Lilly

vs Baltimore 3-1 2.55

vs Boston 1-3 3.97

vs NY 0-2 5.51

vs Tampa 1-1 6.75

vs Toronto N/A

Frankly, against the teams the Yanks face the most I see no edge for Zito.

Sam, I don't think it's a matter of Zito being or not being a cut above Lilly (I would agree that Zito is a cut above) but for me, I think with Lilly we are more guaranteed to know exactly what we're getting, and get exactly what we pay for. Zito, on the other hand, could turn out to be a huge disappointment if the theory that he can't cut it in the AL East proves correct.
I wouldn't be opposed to us signing Zito but I'd be just as unopposed to us signing Lilly, a proven AL East pitcher who kills the S*x.

Oh BTW~a Cowgirls fan on a NY Yankees blog?! Say it aint so! :)

Sam - Yeah, I wasn't too clear in my explanation, and that's my fault. Barry Zito is easily better than Ted Lilly on paper, but most people here seem to agree that he would get lit up in the AL East (as tends to be the case throughout his career) and would demand a ridiculous amount of money. Ted Lilly, however, has pitched most of his career in the AL East and has good numbers against the Red Sox, in addition to being an innings-eater and an overall cheaper option.

The way I see it...if we were able to survive last year with Chien-Ming Wang as our ace, I'm sure we will be OK next year without an ace in Barry Zito.

Of course, I'm being sarcastic when I say "survive last year." Best record in the Majors is pretty far above "surviving." :-P

I am trying to think of a left handed pitcher, who was NOT a rookie, with whom the Yankees struggled this past year.

Johan Santana 0-0 5.68

Scott Kazmir 0-2 3.97

Erik Bedard 1-0 2.25 the best I found

Mark Buehrle 01 21.00

Nate Robertson 0-2 4.60

Based on last year's numbers I could not say by any stretch that Lilly killed the Red Sox. No way.

So besides Bedard which LHP have the Yankees trouble last year, besides the rookies?

I'm new to this blog, though I have been posting at Pete's blog. I have two questions. First, what is WHIP? I saw that stat in the articles regarding the Cy Young. I'm usually pretty familiar with such things, or I can figure them out, but this one's giving me a problem. Thanks.

Second question, and I know this is a bit off on a tangent relative to the couple of posts above me, but I would like to know what people think about why the Yankees seem to have so much trouble with rookie pitchers?

Now, a third question, relative to the question about left handers against whom the Yankees struggled, are you looking to acquire those lefties? I guess the best way to beat a foe is to have him join you.

Anyway, I agree that Barry Zito is not the answer for the Yankees. For the last 2 years, it seems, people have been poised for his free agency, and except for one outing in this year's playoffs, I have not been impressed with him. I hope that Cashman does not give in and sign him. I know that Lilly was a Yankee once before, correct? Would that present a problem, if we got him back?

See:

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061115&content_id=1741472&vkey=hotstove2006&fext=.jsp

They're looking for 4 years and $34 mil. I don't know if I want Lilly for that long a contract, especially if he didn't work out as a Yankee before.

Also read about interest in Gil Meche, which my hubby was quite unimpressed with. Comments? Thanks!

Lilly was traded away with nick johnson if i remember correctly, it was not because he was a problem before, and I think getting out of his situation in toronto, it would not be an issue for him to come back.

Whip is a combination of hits and walks per inning, basically the average of base runners per 9 innings. (A whip below 1 is considered dominant, that means less than 9 base runners in a 9 inning complete game on average). The Yankees thrive on scouting reports and making adjustments, so I would guess that is why they struggle with rookies. They were also mainly fastball hitters, many of the rookies we struggle with do not specialize in power. Lilly would be aquired and I wouldn't really mind signing him for four years because that will give us insurance for when johnson mussina and possibly pavano after his contract leave.

Right now there are basically two sure things for the long term, wang and hughes. Maybe sanchez, maybe clippard, maybe any other prospect, but I think having lilly for after mussina and Pavano's contracts are up is not such a bad thing.

That or Lilly was traded for either weaver or brown, either way it was a mistake.

In fact johnson was part of the vazquez deal to get johnson, so they definitely weren't traded together.

Johnson, Rivera, and Choate went to Montreal.

Lilly went to Oakland, Bonderman to Detroit, Weaver to NY.

Now I'm confused.

Butchered that one, thank you paul, all I knew is Lilly was definitely traded in a bad deal and now that I see the deal, it was actually an incredibly awful one.

Thanks for the answers to my questions. I was just looking up some info on Lilly. I guess he's a "middle of the road" type pitcher and would fill a need. And I am guessing your opinion is he shouldn't have been traded in the first place.

I hadn't thought about the 4 year contract being an overlap after Moose and Johnson are gone. Good point. I was thinking more in terms of not tying up too much money in case next year's batch of free agents is better than this year's. Lilly's 30, right?

And, the fact that Lilly throws lefty is very attractive, since we basically have one-half a left right now with Johnson.

I like the crop of young arms, I just worry about counting my chickens before they hatch, you know?

I realy don't understand why you guys think lilly would be more be better than zito. They are both lefties. But strictly speaking Zito is much better. So what if he is more expensive he is also younger and we ai'nt gonna have moose forever I would love if they signed zito to a long term deal at the very least he would replace moose in the 2 spot of the rotation.

Vazquez, Halsey, and Navarro went to Arizona for Johnson.

Weaver with Brandon Weeden (minors), Yhency Brazoban, and cash went to LA Dodgers for Brown.

I would prefer a 3 yr deal for Lilly, but I would prefer one of those LHP rookies like Saunders from the Angels, Sowers of Cleveland, or that one from Baltimore.

I never said Lilly is better than Zito at least, I just think rather than put all our money in one place, we can grab a guy like Lilly. Plus the whole unproven Zito in the division, his west coast personality and the fact the redsox dominate him is a red flag. Dgall I also worry about relying too much on our prospects, we don't want to turn into boston.

Can someone name next year's free agent list of starting pitchers, the elite ones, is it going to be much better?

Paul I don't think we can get them short of giving up A rod in a deal, which I am not opposed to, but I get the sense he is.

mcooper, check Paul's entry at 5:34pm. That's one of the main reasons why some people here would prefer Lilly over Zito.

See this link for a list of 2008 free agents. I haven't looked through it myself yet.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/10/2008_mlb_free_a.html

BTW, my name is Dor

I think the rookie issue has been as long as I remember. Basically the Yankees have been a strong scouting team to the extent the batters rely on it too much.

Like that Baltimore kid who was bloody awful against the rest of baseball.

Adam Loewen was 6-6, 5.37 for the year. Against the Yanks he was

2-1

2.63

I wish they would have gotten him for Jaret.

Paul I am gonna repost those Zito/Lilly AL East stats you posted at 5:34, over on Pete's blog, cause I am already sick of people there crying about what malarkey it is to prefer Lilly over Zito. :)

Thanks, Dor, and welcome. I was seeking a list of 2008 free agents.

Here are Loewen's splits. he also did well against KC and Minnesota, but no one else.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/playerSplits?categoryId=288685

2008 "All Star" Free Agents:

SP - John Smoltz

SP - Carlos Zambrano

SP - Chris Carpenter

SP - Curt Schilling

SP - Jason Jennings

RP - Joe Nathan

RP - Mariano Rivera

RP - Trevor Hoffman

RP - Scott Linebrink

Scary seeing Mo's name there. Posada is also on the list. Freddy Garcia, Trevor Hoffman, Jon Lieber and Bartolo Colon are also listed.

So is Ichiro.

Actually, pretty interesting. Why trade for a guy who's going to be a free agent next year???

OK, Gina, if you wish.

A trade with a 2008 free agent can be made contingent on signing an extention. That happens a lot.

The Yanks MUST resign Mo and Jorge. They are pillars.

There is not much attractive on that list except for maybe Joe Nathan, but he will be 33.

Couldn't even think of the core Yankees in different unis. It's pretty rare that you can follow the same players on the same team for more than 4 or so years. Especially home-grown players.

Nathan is interesting. Twins have to try to lock him up.

The two guys I can see going elsewhere who would top the list are Ichiro and Zambrano. Some (Smoltz, Schilling, Hoffman) will be too old if they are still playing to have much value.

Mo's going nowhere. Neither, I think, is Posada.

This is what I would do:

Randy Johnson & Carl Pavano to the Mets for John Maine.

Sign Ted Lilly.

ARod and Eric Duncan to the Rangers for Michael Young and Mark Teixiera.

Prospects (2-3 but not Hughes/Tabata/Clippard)to Cleveland/Baltimore/Angels for one of those LHPs I covet.

Just for kicks, I checked out Free agents for 2009. The only one listed was... Johan Santana. And it says he only going to be 29. Can anyone say "feeding frenzy?" My bet is the twins re-negotiate and he doesn't even hit the market.

But Carlos Zambrano??

Save those pennies now.

Under my theory the Yankee rotation:

Wang

Mussina

LHP I mentioned above

Maine

Lilly

Karstens/Rasner the other in long relief

Wow, I should be a GM.

The only one id want is zambrano

Nice, Paul. Texas would never go for it though.

If they did, who would you have play 3b, Young?

I'll check back later.

I would also be looking to trade Giambi anywhere for prospects.

Accomplishing that the 4 outfielders will rotate in and out of DH and maybe Bernie would be in the mix, not sure yet.

With a decent backup catcher I would like to see Jorge play a few at 1B and maybe Mark T could DH those days, so maybe Bernie is a bad idea.

Paul, texas would make a killing on that deal, a rod for tex straight up is a ripoff

Hey all. It ***** not being able to check the board on my lunch break at school anymore. Durn ******** blocked the site. "Personal pages" is their excuse. Grrrr.

Anyway, Ichiro will be a free agent in 2008? Isn't That the year Abreu's contract is up? Or is it up next year? Interesting....

Mike not sure if Young or Jeter would go to 3B.

Young has only played 3 games at 3B but he has played a bunch at 2B. I think Jeter has only played SS.

Yes, Abreu's contract is up the same time as Ichiro's.

But Paul, didn't Texas get RID of A-Rod in the first place? Well, I guess they're still paying him so....

Ichiro is a real problem player Rob. I would not like to see him on the team.

This is not a guy anything like Hideki, if that is what you are thinking. Hideki is a team first guy. Suzuki is a me first guy, then me, then me one more time, then maybe the team.

Yes, Dor, maybe they forgot why they got rid of him. That Hicks guy is not that bright and they have changed management several times since then.

Yes, but then Alex would have to go to short in Texas. After three years at 3b, don't think Texas would go for that.

No way Texas gets rid of Young.

Paul, don't make me laugh!

Interesting that Ichiro comes up though, because I was listening to The Show on XM with Dibble and Kennedy and they comparing and contrasting Damon and Ichiro as lead-off hitters. How Damon is a team guy and will work the count, etc., while Ichiro wants his 250 hits and actually is first in the league in least number of pitches taken. Not a Yankee guy at all.

Mike, Texas has talked of moving Young as well as Teixieira, the latter for his contract and the former because he will be a free agent the next.

They have also been shopping Blaylok so ARod could do 3B.

I do not like Suzuki at all. He campaigned to get his manager fired because the manager dared to ask him to play CF when the regular CF was hurt.

He is one of the least likeable players in baseball. Albeit talented, but a real pain.

So I waited all day for the phone company to arrive and they did at like 5:00 and then could not find a problem I have been having for 2 weeks.

Don't see it, though, Paul. Looking at things from the other side too to see how it would make sense for them as well as Yanks.

Mike, they improve their offense at SS or 3B and get younger at 1B and shed 2 high payrolls for 1.

They feel they will not be able to re-sign Young for a number of reasons. I think there is an internal conflict.

A-Rod would have to approve the trade, too. He won't want to go back to Texas, I wouldn't think.

Howard Spira will chat with him.

Paul, why do you want to get rid of one of the best players in baseball just because of one "bad" season?

Rob, he is one of the top 100, not sure I would go much higher. On the decline it is time the Yanks got something of value for him.

Anyone ever heard of a catcher in the White Sox system by the name of Gustavo Molina? He is not related to the other 3 "Catching Molinas." He is from Venezuela.

I don't see anything out there that's promising for the future. Does Bengie Molina want to be a back-up?

Okay, Paul, I can see your reasoning if you really feel he is on the decline. I'm not so sure, but you are right to want to get something in exchange for a player that will only get worse, not better.

To be honest, I never wanted the Yankees to get A-rod in the first place, but, now that he is a Yankee, I have become an A-rod defender because I think people blame him unfairly for the team's fortunes the last couple of years. And I don't think there is a 3rd baseman out there who is better. Or even in the same league for that matter.

Love this quote from Bobby Valentine: "If Matsuzaka winds up being a flop, it will be the biggest upset since the Titanic went down.".

Daisy Matsuzaka will likely not be a flop.

However, the other 24 Red Sox players will manage to grab defeat from the jaws of victory.

And if A-Rod excels after leaving the Yankees, Brian Cashman will be fired. See? It's all ESPN's plan to implant foolish ideas into fans' minds and unmake the Yankees bit by bit...

...oh, believe me, it's all true.

:-P

Thanks for your input on Lilly and Zito, Paul and others. Now, don't we all want my Cowboys to beat those undefeated Colts on Sunday? Anybod give me Dallas and 21? LOL..I guess bottom line is we need some type of FA starter w/RJ and Pavano next year, also a reliable back up catcher than can play 2 or 3 times a week if need be. I will be out of town on Sunday, won't be able to watch my Cowboys (maybe that will be a good thing).....

Hmmm, "want the cowtoys to win."

NEVER!!!!!!

I hope, for my friends' sake, that the Redskins win at least 2 more games this season. I am actually convinced that one could become severely affected mentally if they lose any more.

Now be nice Rob. I can't stand TO, but love my Cowboys as much as the Yankees. They need to win on Sunday. And did I mention..>GO EMMITT!!!

Well, I can't stand the Redskins. However, wanted them to beat Philly last week and they totally stunk. I will be cheering for the Redskins when they play the Giants.......

Russ, I can't cheer for the Cowtoys. 49ers fan.

Yeah, yeah, I know, they are abismal right now, but at least they aren't the Raiders.

If the Cowboys are playing the Colts...

oh this is gonna hurt me to do this....

ok...ahem...

GO COWBOYS!

[choke, cough, cough]

You know.. I guarantee if Paul, Swo and me each posted a chapter each of War and Peace and kept going until we got to the end of the book, the *joke* of posting random baseball articles under different names on Pete's blog would become VERY old, VERY quickly. LOL

Aww Mark, don't worry - we may stray, but we ALWAYS come back to you ;-)

Where else are we going to be able to talk about frozen turkeys, Darwin Awards and baseball??

Seems ther's been an agreement between the Jays and Frank Thomas. It seems to be a two year contract worth 18 million with a 2009 option for 10 million more.
A's now are going for Barry Bonds

ther's = there's. Sorry

Hey, Paul. I'm affraid you're a little obsessed in trading Alex Rodríguez. Seriously, I can't get your point. How could you trade a 31 year old man that has averaged 39 homeruns and 119 RBI's in his three years in NY? Just because of his last two terrible post seasons? You mean, let's forget all he has done during 480 games for just NINE games? I think you're being a little bit rough. But, of course, this is my point of view. You have yours, and I respect it. It's just that I completely disagree.

Ex Yankee catcher Bob Geren to be new A's manager.

Someone please tell Randy Johnson to retire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NY Post today:

Mark Hale: Glavine 50/50 Mets/Braves, doesn't figure he will decide before Thanksgiving.

METS-YANKS 2007 GAMES

AT SHEA May 18-20

AT YANKEE STADIUM June 15-17

From Joel Sherman:

5 of 8 execs polled think Zito winds up with Mets (Rick Peterson connection?) 1 Angels (where I think he'd fit best), 1 Rangers, 1 Yankees. Bora$$ wants more than Oswalt $$ for Zito. (5 yr/$73 mil) Yanks don't view him worth as much as Oswalt.

TB apparently has Crawford and Baldelli on the market. Marlins looking for CF could shop Olson or Josh Johnson to TB for Baldelli.

Cashman shows tact:

States "I would not use the word "cautious" to describe our bid. I thought our number was aggressive. I thought their number was more aggressive." Nice tact, Brian. There are other words he could have used other than "more aggressive." Yanks had internal concerns that the number they DID bid was TOO MUCH.

Cashman expects to inform Proctor to prepare to come to camp as a STARTER. If Yanks fill rotation needs, then they move him back. Easier to go back than prepare for relief and be thrown into the rotation.

Yanks made inquiries toward Nomar but believe he is heading back to LA. According to industry sources (love to have names, wouldn't you) Hillenbrand is high on the Yankee list. Guess the Yanks figure he can get along w/Torre (if you can't...) Seems to me Hillenbrand would light a fire---which they could sometimes use, but is it a good fire? Character issues here, but if he behaves, good for .270-20-70 in the 8 spot.

Agents for Dotel and Baez say Yanks have shown interest. Dotel minor league contract? Next year his arm s/b ok. Maybe a minor league deal would be ok. Baez wants to close, which he would not do in NY. If Yanks get Baez, could Farnsy be on block (Yanks would have to eat a lot of the two years left??)

Later! See anything else floating around, let us know.

Well, if proctor really is to move to the rotation. they would need another bullpen arm. Baez could basically replace proctor and farnsworth would prob. not be on the block.
-Ben

I think it's an insurance policy, to CYA, but I don't see Proctor in the rotation.

Jorge, there is only one reason I am recommending that trade: to improve the team.

There are 4 players I would move this offseason to improve the Yanks, despite that they all have no trade clauses and may or may not have value: Johnson, Pavano, ARod, Giambi.

I was not happy with Farnsworth at all last year but in retrospect he was not as bad as I thought I guess. I think it was Gina who pointed out an interesting fact that in his history he haa a great year every other year. 2007 is the year for the great year. Does that guarantee a better performance? No, but the trend is there.

It would be tough to replace Proctor in the bullpen because of the extent of work he did. But the reason he and Villone and others seemed to be overused was because of the starting rotation.

People jump on Torre for being a bad manager for burning out his bullpen, but I wonder what his alternatives were with starters often crumbling in the 5th inning?

Once the starter is pulled does the opposing team hit off a tee for 2 innings until the bullpen is ready?

Guaranteed, better starters make your bullpen look much better.

Paul, I agree -- bullpen would fare much better if starters could go longer. I think sometimes Torre pulls starters before he really has to, though. Also, he tends to go with the "hot hand" rather than rotating the bullpen work -- or so it seems, anyway. I thought the relief staff did okay and the only times they stunk was when there were multiple days where the starters couldn't get past the 6th.

Farnsworth did well when he wasn't worked either 2 days in a row or for 2 innings. So, there's not a lot of flexibility where he's concerned. Which means you need 2 guys who can pitch the 8th ahead of Mariano and alternate them. it seems to me Mariano won't be going 2 innings very much anymore.

I think Proctor could do well as a starter - he's got great poise and presence. I was kind of hoping, though, that they might be grooming him to (dare I even whisper it), r-e-p-l-a-c-e Mo when the time comes.

I really don't want Shea Hillenbrand at first base next year. He seams like a more racist pissed off version of Sheffield without the athletic ability.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shea_Hillenbrand

Thanks for the link, mcooper. Interesting guy, this Shea Hillenbrand. Who needs his brand of garbage? Sheffield was not anywhere near this! Sure, Sheffield occasionally had something stupid to say, but I never got the sense he was "mean." Hillenbrand seems "mean." No thanks!

ESPN insider info is free today for some reason. Keith Law has his list of top 40 free agents, and ranks Moose, Lilly, and Meche 11, 12, and 13. Zito is ranked 15. He really puts in perspective why signing someone like Lilly or Meche is much smarter.

If you can't access it, here's the good stuff:

"Zito is a third or fourth starter with the reputation of a one or a two. In fact, over the last three years, he's struggled badly when facing the two premier offenses in the AL, posting a 6.59 ERA against Boston and the Yankees while walking 47 men and allowing 18 homers in 83.3 innings. His control is below-average; only Daniel Cabrera has walked more batters in the last two years than Zito has. And should Zito's stuff slip at all, he becomes a fifth starter or a guy who needs to head to the National League, the current destination for asylum-seekers who fear AL persecution of their fringy fastballs."

I only situation I would want a Marlin, Padres, Dodgers OR A's pitcher is if his ERA is less than 3 for an extended period of time (atleast 3 yrs) or if he is a SO/ground ball pitcher. Those parks are SOOOO pitcher friendly, they cut atleast 1 point off anybody's era. Easily.

*I=The

I don't think Hillenbrand is the answer. Out of this market the only 1st baseman I'd consider is Kevin Millar, who can typically be good for .270+ average, 20 or so homeruns, and 60 or so RBI's. Outside of that, I'd look for a trade.

Does anyone know when Opening Day at the Stadium will be? I read somewhere that it was April 2nd vs. Tampa Bay, but I am wondering if anyone knows for sure. I MUST GO TO THAT GAME!

levelhead, I agree with you, but I'm willing to make an exception for Dan Haren. That guy has pitched some amazing games all over the country. But again, he's the ONLY exception I would make.

I would throw up on my shoes if we ever thought of signing Millar!!!

You know what's funny? As much as Trot Nixon has given to the Red Sox, you know, helping deliver the first world series championship in 86 years, when Red Sox fans were asked which free agents they want to see back next year both Loretta and Gonzalez received more votes than Nixon. Where's the love?

Yeah, I don't get it. You'd think you would want to retain as much of the team that won you your ONE championship as possible. Thus I don't get the deal for Renteria, or casting off Bill Mueller and Kevin Millar or letting Derek Lowe, Johnny Damon, and now Trot Nixon walk away.

Je ne comprends pas.

Trot Nixon was the ONLY homegrown player on the championship team.

It says a lot about how the Red Sox are loyal to their players. I guess loyalty is a foreign concept when you are accustomed to building your team with mercenaries.

Varitek's homegrown as well. I did the research on how many players on the Red Sox are homegrown, and its less than on the Yankees. It confused me because Sox fans are always saying that they build their team off the farm, and we just get free agents, but the truth is, we develop more homegrown talent than they do. Not to mention that they trade as many of their prospects away as the Yankees do (or did, since we aren't doing that as much anymore) as well. I'll do the breakdown in my next post.

Had to help babysit. My 3 year old (almost..11/28) nephew got sick.

Millar...only 24 hr in the last two years combined despite playing in two places very friendly to a righty hitter---Fenway and Camden Yards.

RIP Bo Schembechler. The ex-Michigan coach collapsed today at the same studio he collapsed at a month ago. He was 77. After retiring as Michigan football coach, he worked for the Tigers for a spell.

Big Hurt to Jays official, Boston resigns Alex cora.

Yankee Homegrown Talent:

Chien Ming Wang

Derek Jeter

Bernie Williams

Jorge Posada

Robinson Cano

Scott Proctor

Mariano Rivera

Melky Cabrera

These are players on last year's team that were homegrown. I only included permanent players, and what I mean is players whose position isn't in jeopardy, and who will be on the opening day rosters next season. I also didn't include releivers since that seems to be a cyclical position, though I included the closer, which tends to be more permanent.

Red Sox Homegrown Talent:

Trot Nixon

Jason Varitek

Jonathan Papelbon

Kevin Youkillis

I didn't include Pauley, Dinardo, Lester or any of the million other young pitchers who got called up last season since no one beleives they will be in the rotation. That's why I didn't include Karsten in the Yankee list.

Now the question is, who has the better homegrown players? I know where my money is.

Also, here's a list of homegrown talent the Red Sox got rid of:

Hanley Ramirez - Marlins

Anibal Sanchez - Marlins

Freddy Sanchez - Pirates

David Eckstein - Cardinals

Look those players up and see why the Red Sox should be kicking themselves for giving these guys up.

Varitek came from Seattle with Derek Lowe for Heathcliffe Slocumb.

Papelbon was not on the 2004 Red Sox.

Not sure if Youkilis was on the 2004 Red Sox playoff roster.

Tek not homegrown. Part of trade with Seattle that brought Lowe to Boston for relief pitcher. I think Heathcliff Slocum

Scott Proctor was not home grown but came to the Yanks in the trade of Robin Ventura to the Dodgers. Proctor and Bubba Crosby came from LA.

The Red Sox also gave up on pitching prospect Carl Pavano. They deserve to have him back.

How do you guys define homegrown? Do you only include players that we drafted? I figure that whichever team gave them their first taste of the bigs is the team that brought them up. I think apart of building a good farm is trading for those prospects. I still consider them our prospects if we traded for them though.

Proctor not homegrown either. Part of trade that brought Bubba Crosby to NYY from LAD. I think Robin Ventura. Still, good scouting to get him.

Homegrown should come from free agent signing (latin american players)or drafting. I wouldn't consider Sanchez homegrown, he's from Detroits system.

Falejandro, I agree with JHogan's assessment of homegrown.

Proctor was developed by the Yankees but he was a Dodger farm product.

New to the blog as far as a poster (i have been keeping up since mid summer). Big fan of fellow yankees fans thoughts, opinions.

Alright, in that case, it hurts the Red Sox even more. Am I right in saying that Mariano Rivera, Derek Jeter, Bernie Williams, Jorge Posada, Robinson Cano, Melky Cabrera, and Chien Ming Wang are homegrown talents by your guys' definition?

Oh, and Paul, I was talking about the present Red Sox team as well as the present Yankees team, not the 2004 team.

Varitek came from the Seattle farm. He's not homegrown either. It's just Nixon, Youkilis, and Papelbon.

What I think is interesting about the current state of the farm is that almost all the top prospects come from the draft. I can't remember the last time the Yankees put so much stock in the draft (early 90s, I suppose)...usually the great farmhands are overseas signings, like Alfonso Soriano or Robinson Cano. I think until 2003 they took the draft for granted. Not so much after that, eh?

And yes, you are right in saying that, falejandro.

I must ask, where does Soriano and Matsui fit in? They both had careers overseas in Japan before playing here, but they were introduced to the majors by the Yankees.

I agree with those Falejandro.

Matsui is a FA. Soriano is kind of a hybrid, I'd lean towards homegrown because he was unproven and assigned to minors after signing.

Since we tend to go by first name here, I should let you all know that my name is Fernando.

Thanks for the clarification everyone. It appears that the Red Sox whining about our team's development strategy is unfounded. Especially when you consider that last season we had 4 position players, a starting pitcher, and a closer who came out of our farm.

Thanks, Fernando, I never knew. I thought Falejandro was your first name.

Soriano was a farm product. I even saw him play in Columbus.

Matsui was not a farm product. Even though he was considered a rookie, he played professional baseball and really should not have been considered a rookie.

Still glad they got him though. He is a terrific player and by all accounts a really good guy.

Both Matsui and Soriano are great players. I still wish we had never traded Soriano, and I don't mean that as a shot towards A-Rod. But the good thing I can say about getting rid of Soriano is that we made room for Cano, even though we didn't know it at the time. Cano is a sound defender, and a proven hitter. I agree with Torre's assessment that he will hit for power in the near future, but I'm cool with his .341 batting average for now.

Soriano and Matsui are great players. I wish we never traded Soriano. The only good thing I can say about the trade is that it unknowingly made room for Cano to come up a couple years later. Cano has been amazing, and I agree with Torre's assessment that he will hit for power in the near future. For now I can settle with his 15 homeruns and his .341 average.

Many people did not realize other than the fact that I posted it 4 times daily, but then no one ever listens to me...

Cano led the majors in RBI after he came back from his time away. He even beat Ryan Howard by a run or two.

Whoops, sorry for the double post. It gave me an error message after the first one, and my post didn't display, so I went back and retyped it. Now it just looks weird.

Cano was great the second half Paul. I remember hearing about his major league leading RBI's in the second half. Next year, I hope to see him continue his development.

Cano is an interesting creature. I don't understand how someone with such terrible plate discipline can be such a good hitter.

Whatever he's doing, I hope he doesn't change it. I say let him keep swinging that bat. ADD or not, he's already a fantastic hitter, and his fielding is starting to catch up to his hitting.

Cano seems to be a great kids, great attitude. I was impressed he made a special effort to improve his game working with coach Larry Bowa.

I can only see him getting better.

Also it is terrific that he and Melky are a close pair, from playing together to visiting hospitals to cheer up the kids. Looking at those teo alone the Yankee future looks bright.

We used to have a saying for hitters like Cano...

we said that he came from the "Manny Sanguillen school of hitting."

Speaking of plate discipline, how many of you remember a one-time Yankee named Oscar Azocar? If you don't remember him, look up his stats...

I remember the name, Mike, but not much if anything about him. He was a short-termer I think.

1990 Yanks. 214 ab. 2 walks.

He went to the Padres and developed some plate discipline (cough, cough) and wound up his career with 12 walks in 439 ab.

Oscar Gregorio Azocar
Bats Left, Throws Left

Height 6' 1", Weight 170 lb.

Debut July 17, 1990

vs. KCR 1 AB, 1 H, 0 HR, 0 RBI, 0 SB

Final Game October 4, 1992

Born February 21, 1965 in Soro, Venezuela

Transactions

November 22, 1983: Signed by the New York Yankees as an amateur free agent.

December 3, 1990: Traded by the New York Yankees to the San Diego Padres for a player to be named later. The San Diego Padres sent Mike Humphreys (February 7, 1991) to the New York Yankees to complete the trade.

October 7, 1992: Granted Free Agency.

known to enjoy long walks on the beach...

Vince might have to fill us in on this one, but I read in the Post today that WTIC (right?) in Hartford could be switching from Red Sox broadcasts to Yankee broadcasts next year.

Boston needs a Yankee outlet. The Providence station that carries the broadcast sometimes also carries the Pawtucket Red Sox.

Given the choice, which fa pitcher would everyone out there like to see nyy target, schmidt, lilly, padilla, meche, andy, or other (I exclude zito because I don't see the yankees going where his salary and years are going)

Lilly's got my vote.

Padilla or Lilly

Tiger Lilly

I say Lilly too, but he's going west coast. It's sad too say, but i don't no if I'd target any.

I live 5 minutes from Lackawanna Co stadium, new home to yankees AAA. I think they are the most interesting yankee pitchers

AAA is going to have some sick pitching next season.

When was the last time Yankees fans were able to say that?

I was at a game where Oscar Azocar hit a home run in 1990.

Yes indeed Mike.
http://www.courant.com/sports/baseball/redsox/hc-wticsox1110.artnov10,0,6002035.story?coll=hc-redsox-headlines

Fernando, I have posted on the Sox blog and the Yankees blog since last summer, and I have had my own BoSox blog since September, and I don't recall any Sox fan saying most of their talent is homegrown.

As I mentioned to Vince recently, the Sox can almost field an all-star team of prospects they have traded. I believe the Hanley Ramirez-Anibal Sanchez deal for Beckett and Lowell was a good one because I am confident that Beckett will be a top-caliber starter for the long term, and you have to give up something to get something. I wish the Sox did not make the deal that included Freddy Sanchez and Mike Gonzalez for Jeff Suppan in 2003 (I think).

Now, though, the Sox have a well-stocked farm system, with many top pitchers and position players who will be ready starting in 2008 and 2009. right now, the Sox have holes to fill, so I am glad Henry is opening his wallet (he can afford it; he is a billionaire, after all) and bringing in young talent. Believe me, they will sign Matsuzaka, and they will have him under their control for six years since that is when he will be eligible for free agency. I think you will see the Sox sign two more big contracts (likely Lugo at short and Drew in right field), and acquire a closer and a set-up man through a trade (Lowell, Wily Mo Pena and Craig Hansen being the names most talked about by other teams).

Jon Lester could be back by next season, but even if he isn't, he should be ready for 2008. He will be a solid starter. So will Daniel Bard, who should be ready by 2008. And the Sox are stocked with future closers and set-up men.

So, though Henry will open his wallet and pay hefty contracts this off season to fill holes where minor leaguers aren't ready, the Sox are not abandoning their plan to fill holes in the future from within. Fortunately, as long as Henry is the owner, they will have the luxury of signing big name free agents and even taking on salary in a trade.

So post what you like about the Red Sox, Henry and Theo. The bottom line is, with their financial capabilities now, and the farm system they have built, they will have the best of both worlds, which makes them formidable for the long term.

Unless of course, their guys cannot make the transition in the hostile confines of redsox nation.

A lot of interesting chatter going around besides Hillenbrand and nomar, also reports of trade talks with the tigers, indians and lilly saying he wants to go to a winner, and doesn't care as much about geography.

This tells me of all the contenders, lilly would want to come to ny the most, and if we trade a guy like villone (coveted by the tribe) to the indians, can we add some other names to get a guy like sowers in our rotation? I really think Lilly will be a Yankee, but I also can sense some sort of medium to large trade before the offseason is up. I don't think the yankees will go after a name like zito, but I think they will get a big name through trade by the end of the offseason.

I agree, Vince, some big time trade is probably coming. The prospects obtained through trading Sheffield and the addition of Britton gave the Yankees more chips to deal for a good, established starter.

And it looks like the annual "Fanny on the trade block" rumor mill is going. Will you guys just finally trade that horses rear end to an NL team and get it over with already?

Yeah, Lilly would be a good back of the rotation guy. Good luck with Hillenbrand. He is a clubhouse cancer. Nomar is about to resign with LA. I know the Padres are seriously shopping Jake Peavy. I read in the SD Union-Tribune where he might be going to the Braves for Marcus Giles, Horacio Ramirez and a top prospect.

Vince, Villone is a free agent. The Sox have expressed interest in signing him, though I hope they don't Villone was a decent reliever earlier in his career, but I think his better years are behind him.

"Yankees: Industry sources tell the New York Post that the Yankees have Shea Hillenbrand high on their list, because he bats right-handed and plays first base. The Yankees already have a lineup stocked with left-handed batters: Bobby Abreu, Johnny Damon, Hideki Matsui, Robinson Cano and Jason Giambi. The Post also reported that the organization has interest in re-signing reliever Octavio Dotel and signing Danys Baez off the free-agent market. However, Baez wants to close and the Yanks already have that position filled."

Um, Hillenbrand? Not sure I like that idea, but he is a pretty good bat and his defense isn't horrible.

I posted this on another blog, not sure if I did here.

Why would someone who didn't want to play in Philly want to dump himself in the middle of the Boston/NY rivalry? I really wonder if Drew has the inner makeup to handle the East coast.

I guarantee Drew is a flop if he is a sox....You heard it here first....and dozens of other rumor mills.

I wonder if Hillenbrand has been so selfish because he has been on a bunch of losers. He was with the sox when they were bad, the bluejays when they were bad, the giants when they were bad and I can't remember his 4th team, but has the guy ever sniffed a quality team, and how was his personality then? Has he ever had a manager like torre? As opposed to a guy like Gibbons that is a headcase himself, throws games to division rivals and picks fights with MULTIPLE players? I'm not sold on Hillenbrand being a clubhouse cancer just yet.

Ironic that Hillenbrand has the rep of a clubhouse cancer.

I don't believe in astrology, but

he was born the same day as A-Rod.

Hillenbrand's d is average. Numbers could translate, as I mentioned above, to .270-20-70; maybe .270-17-65 or so. The one thing is he also has lack of plate discipline. Does not walk much. Also is slow and prone to DPs.

Righty hitting 1b on market:

Nomar (reported back to LA. Like him, nice comeback .303, but .243 after AS break.)

Millar...only 24 hr in last 2 years in hitter friendly parks

Aurilia

Hillenbrand...discussed above

Nevin...not sold on low average, 36 and lots of Ks.

So there you have it...

Out of those, I'll take my risks on Hillenbrand, though nomar is the clear first choice. Why isn't anybody talking about his clubhouse personality, last I checked it was not very respectable either

Looking at a list of FAs now.

Really wondering if Yanks could talk Damian Miller into being Jorge's backup.

Can we get johnny estrada for a small price through trade? I know he is out there and he would be an excellent catcher for a few years before we develop one

Besides the listed, other righty bats who could play 1b:

Jeff Bagwell (LOL...injured and will retire)

Can re-sign Craig Wilson

Eduardo Perez (isn't a full timer)

David Bell could switch to 1b. Not interested. Not enough bat for a 1b.

backup catchers:

Widger (been there, done that)

Javy Jopez...yeh, right

Mirabelli...uh, no.

Sandy Alomar Jr. ...is 40

Paul Bako

Rod Barajas

Gregg Zaun (rumored to go to KC)

I doubt seriously that Benjie Molina (FA) will take a backup role. Both Jays catchers, Zaun and Molina are free agents.

Todd Pratt...old

Einar Diaz

Damian Miller (if he would accept backup role, would be a good fit despite his age...one year deal?) Did Brewers exercise club option?

Mike DiFelice ... No. Was actually catching in AA Binghamton last year.

Kelly Stinnett...been there, done that

Mike Lieberthal...not sold on him. Don't know if he would accept backup role.

Mike Piazza...can't play 1b, and I doubt seriously that he'd accept a backup C role. Lousy Def. C anyway.

Todd Greene...been there, done that (how many times have I written that?)

Sal Fasano...once more, been there done that.

Gary Bennett

Robert Fick

Unless a trade...that's it, really from righty-hitting 1b and backup C.

BTW, go to main page and check out the article on Winter ball.

Joba Chamberlain is kicking some butt.

I wouldn't mind barajas, how is he defensively? Fick was good for half a season once.

and I can't remember his 4th team,

Posted by: yankeevmm@yahoo.com | November 17, 2006 10:09 PM

Vince, Hillenbrand went from the S*x to the Diamondbacks in the 2003 season and played with them through 2004.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no to Hillenbrand. He makes Gary Sheffield seem reserved and warm and fluffy.

He is a lousy contact hitter, cannot take walks, is like a rock on the basepaths.

Plus he is just a miserable self-obsessed, crtbaby, whining, mean-spirited, arrogant sharp pointy part of a cactus.

And you thought Raul Mondesi was bad?

Has he lasted beyond 1 year on any club before being sent away simply because too many people would face jail time for plotting his death?

I think he is so evil and bad that even Mo would not like him.

No also to Nomar. Seems he is going back to LA anyhow, but I liked the idea for a few days but read a lot more opinions to the contrary and think it would be a mistake.

I still covet Mark Teixeira and thought of ways to pry him loose from Texas without spending a pitcher or Melky.

Yesterday I was suggesting ARod, Giambi, Duncan for Teixeira, Young, Laird. I was alone with that thought. So maybe today's plan will be Giambi and Duncan for Teixeira.

Failing that gambit I would make no other trade or acquisition for 1B. Why?

We have a more than adequate 1B player in Andy Phillips.

Fans will argue that he is a 29 yr old player and had a shot last year. Sure he did but he had only 286 AB over 110 games. That is a fair shot?

Nope.

Extrapolate his numberas to a full season of 575 AB and you see a 16 HR, 78 RBI result. Not great, but that is applying last year's performance to those numbers. And he was a rookie. 29, yet still a rookie.

His progress has been blocked for years by Giambi and whatever name player they brought in the be the backup 1B (Tino, John Olerud, Tony Clark, Travis Lee), some of whom were good players but they blocked AP.

I feel that giving him the job for the season will really garner a better performance and I see him as a regular 30 HR 95 RBI guy.

Remember, when he played every day he was much better. And so were the Yankees.

Now that I said that stuff about 1B, the News day blog reports they Yanks tried to acquire Wes Helms (Who?) to play 1B, but he turned them down and went to Philly.

http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/blog/2006/11/out_surfing.html

Biography:
Wesley Ray Helms... graduated from Ashbrook High School (NC) in 1994... was 1993 and 1994 North Carolina State Player of the Year... played baseball and basketball... enrolled in kick boxing course following 1995 season to improve his conditioning... he and wife, Meredith, have one son, Wes, Jr. (1/17/75), and one daughter, Stella (12/27/05)... enjoys computers and landscaping. And long walks on the beach...

Bizarre....he has a 31 year old son and he is 30 years old. How did that happen?

someone on pro sports daily said now that the angels are willing to deal, they want santana and weaver for a rod and 2 prospects from the shef deal.....do they not realize what a rip off it would be? a rod would have to involve figgins in the deal, he would have to waive his no trade clause and then we would only get one of those two starters.

Helms went to Philly to platoon at 3b with Nunez.

From today's Post:

Yanks have contacted Meche.

Their interest in Suppan has waned.

No interest in Mulder.

Interest in Lilly lukewarm.

When Muss passes a physical next week, his 2 year, $22.3 mil deal will be announced.

Yanks have expressed interest in Aurilia.

Have Yanks made a bid for Igawa? Posted yesterday. Deadline 5 pm 11/27 (because of holiday).

Yanks are planning to bring Cairo back.

Mets have interest in 40 y.o. Moises Alou.

Later...go PSU!

MICHIGAN!!!!!

Speaking of plate discipline, how many of you remember a one-time Yankee named Oscar Azocar? If you don't remember him, look up his stats...

Posted by: yankeefan1@enter.net | November 17, 2006 05:55 PM

I remember him perfectly, Mike. But I have to be sincere. I don't remember his few time with our Yankees, but I remember him playing here in Yucatán. He played for the Leones de Yucatán (My hometown AAA team) about ten years ago. He played two seasons over here. He was a very good defensive 1B. And the only walks he liked were walks on the beach. (We have Mexican Gulf very near from Mérida, just 20 minutes away by car). He just walked THREE times during those two entire season. Incredible

BTW, go to main page and check out the article on Winter ball.

Joba Chamberlain is kicking some butt.

Posted by: yankeefan1@enter.net | November 17, 2006 10:49 PM

Thanks, Mike. Very interesting. TJ Beam's ERA is just 0.64. PJ Pilittere batting .400. Duncan raising his AVG to .264. Gardner lowering to .250. Tabata batting .288 in Venezuela. Erick Abreu with another microscopic ERA 0.68 with 9 K's and just 1 wal in 13 1/3 innings in Dominican Winter League. And Joba is amazing. 42 K's and 3 Walks in 33 2/3 innings. And posting a 2.14 ERA. Good for the kids

Also in the news from yesterday is that Mike Tyson has a new job.

Yes, the ear-biting, woman-beating, convicted rapist, and world heavyweight champion is going to work for Heidi Fleiss as a male escort. This will be on her new 60-acre Nevada brothel called the Stud Farm.

The spin on this is that good old Mike Tyson is every woman's dream.

Tyson, 40, adds, “I don’t care what any man says, it’s every man’s dream to please every woman - and get paid for it.”

The woman who frequent this blog will have to report back if they enjoyed themselves when they go. But, please, no photos.

Speaking about 1B. There is an interesting mexican player. Maybe some of you remember him. I'm referring to Luis Alfonso García. He plays both RF and 1B. Right handed batter. 6'4". 180 pounds. 28 years old (05/11/78).
He was invited to Tampa last Spring Training. I don't know the reason, but he didn't reported early. He just played 11 games with as few as 13 AB's. But hear this. 4 R, 5 H, 2 HR, 8 RBI, 1 SO, .846 SLG and .385 AVG. But at the end of Spring Training Yanks offered him to go to the Minors, and he preferred to return to México. We were so crowded at the OF with Matsui, Damon, Sheff, Bubba, Melky and Bernie. And with Giambi and AP at first. So, there was no place for him. Back in México he played for Monterrey (AAA). His stats? Again, very good ones. 64 G, 229 AB, 51 R, 81 H, 19 HR, 60 RBI, 30 SO, .646 SLG and .354 AVG. I really hope he'll receive an invitation again. I hope Joe and Donnie has not forgotten him. I think he is ready for the Majors. Right handed 1B. Not expensive at all. If you see this, Mark, remember Brian Cashman that Luis Alfonso is waiting for the invitation. At least, let's watch him in Tampa. No risk at all

Now this blog serves as scout too. Good job.

Yeah Mark. If you see this, please get in somebody's ear. No harm looking into a nice young player.

Yeah I remember Luis A. Garcia from the WBC, Jorge. He was actually with the Yanks in spring training but he opened the season at Columbus and ended up being released I think...I was rooting for him though.

And did anyone else notice that the AAA team this year is gonna be good for a change? Haha no longer a bunch of people trying to keep their careers alive.

I too was wondering what happened to Garcia. I remember being impressed with his stats in ST last year and was wondering who the **** he was. I'm with Jorge on this one. Get this guy back to Florida this Spring. At least give him a real shot to land the 1st base job.

I just read on ESPN that the oversees revenue (of any kind, jersey sales, broadcasting rights anything) of any team is shared equally by all 30 MLB clubs. So the redsox reasoning of making money in Japanese market is completely baseless.

This is just one more reason why I dont like Gammons. He uses his reputation to mislead people. He is the one who started all this Japanese market share propaganda.

In the same article, it was also mentioned that Matsuzaka makes 3.5M/yr in Japan. That means if Matsuzaka signs with Boston now @ 10M/year, he would be making $13M more over the next 2 years. And atleast over 24M (I'm sure he will get atleast $16M/yr as a free agent) less over the 4 years after that. Doesn't it make it almost impossible for the sox to sign Matsuzaka at anything less than $12-13M a year or longer than 3 or 4 years. The redsox better be ready to spend atleast $80-85M more if they want to keep Matsuzaka in Boston for more than 3-4 yrs.

In which case I'll be really happy. Because the best Matsuzaka can do is do what he is supposed to do. In other words, there's no way he can over achieve but he CAN be a bust.

From our Internet radio hosts, Ty and Joe:

Yankee Fan Club Radio will resume on Sunday, December 3rd with some new equipment upgrades to make the show sound even better. In the meantime, keep the comments coming to radio@lvyankeefanclub.com and spread the word about our exciting podcast!

Yeah I remember Luis A. Garcia from the WBC, Jorge. He was actually with the Yanks in spring training but he opened the season at Columbus and ended up being released I think...I was rooting for him though.

Posted by: btide21@aim.com | November 18, 2006 01:14 PM

No, Alex. He returned straight to México when he was released. He didn't went to Columbus. Anyway, he deserves another invitation

levelhead: Are you my buddy Vikram?

If you missed last week's show and would like to download it, you may go here.
Yours truly joined Ty & Joe last week in the studio.

http://radio.lvyankeefanclub.com/podcast.php

What makes you think so, JTorres?

Going back to PSU...they are really disappointing me today. Lucky they are still in the game right now.

I think I read so, but it was many posts above, and I'm not sure about

Any news about Mussina?

Yes I am Jorge.

Wow, BC 3 defensive tds today, two by one player....35-9 in a second, unbelievable performance

Why was the change? And let me congrat you and your wife. When is that gift of life arriving? I mean it, Vik, I'm very happy

Thank you Jorge. Late March to early April.

And why did you change from yankee_indian to levelhead?

see above. Announcement on Muss expected next week after his physical. 2 year deal.

Hey Vik...I have a niece due April 8th. Who knows, maybe your baby and my niece arrive on the same day?

Gammons reporting Alex Gonzalez to Reds.

I forgot the password for the old one, Jorge. Then I thought, I would see if anybody will recognize me from the writing style. Just a bye-product of having too much free time.

May be Mike. My birthday is April 6th. It would be awesome if everything good happens on that day.

WMP and Hansen to Houston for Brad Lidge and Wheeler.

Posted by: jamie12345432@hotmail.com | November 18, 2006 02:54 PM

Well, PSU won. Not pretty, but I'll take it. 17-13. Record 8-4. Now to see what bowl game my alma mater goes to and who their opponent will be.

WMP?

Wily Mo Pena

Time to watch OSU=Mich.

with the MUTE on.

I can't stand Musberger.

Is it done, Vik? Or just a rumor?

Big 10 is overrated. Everybody in the conference lose to OSU and Mich. SEC is THE conference.

Hi all! Just quickly skimming through comments...Mike thanks for the great news about Mussina's deal!
But I am none too happy to read the Post's report about pitching moves...Gil Meche?! Why? WHY?! And their interest in Lilly is only lukewarm? Can anyone think of one good reason why Meche would be preferable to Lilly? Cause I certainly cannot.

Aaand, is this stuff being posted about Lidge to the S*x true?!? If so...****!! Ahaha I love it! This should be fun to watch...heheh another NL pitcher to hit them right where it hurts!

It's even funnier cause this past yr when imbiciles would say that 'Papelbon is the next Rivera' (gag..riiight) I'd say, No, Papelbon is the next Lidge! And now Lidge is actually ON their TEAM...heh. :D :D :D

I dont know Jorge.

Oh, and as for Hansen leaving the pinnacle of mediocrity.. cool. Now he can go back to being a Yankee fan :)

age. price. and who knows Gina.

or may be the Yankees can trade for him from Houston and I will love it when he kicks some redsox b utt.

Vik, do you mean age and price in reference to why they might want Meche over Lilly?

Wow I got all excited as soon as I saw this trade lol..I really hope it happens, it would be sweet on so many levels.

yes Gina. May be I should start being less lazy. lol.

Gina, how are you? How was the storm?

It is just a rumor, circulating, it has not even hit the main rumor mills yet, just some personal blogs. Hansen is not mentioned anywhere, just "a redsox prospect" in addition to wmp for lidge. Nothing about Wheeler involved anywhere, and that deal would not happen. The astros don't have to trade lidge and they would not give up 2 of their 3 best relievers for a decent outfielder and a prospect that fizzled in the majors so far, no way, not a chance. Wheeler and lidge can generate more talent seperated in a trade.

I'm not saying wmp won't be traded, he prob won't but the sox wouldn't add hansen in a deal for andruw jones, now they would for two relievers, one of which can't handle pressure in the NL. Just imagine what would be left of him facing the yankees 19 times a year (or in the redsox case, about 6 or 7).

he prob will*

LOL Vik, it's cool!
Anyhoo, I looked up Lilly and Meche's stats..Lilly is 2 years older, and has had more below .500 seasons. Both made MLB debuts in the same year, but Meche has no stats for the years 01 and 02 I think. I can't remember that far back, was he injured? Maybe he has health issues? Don't know. But also Lilly is a lefty and has pitched more than half his career in the AL East. That, along with him being economical, are the biggest reasons I want him.

Meche is lefty too. Isn't he?

I think he was injured, meche is def more injury proned, and I believe he is a righty

Hey Jorge! The storm was greatly exxagerated by the weather people, LOL. They made it sound like Armageddon, but it actually weakened as it headed up the coast.

Yes, he's a righty. Just checked.

Yeah Vince unless they make big deals for outfielders like Jones and *gag* JD Drew, I think it would not be in their best interest to trade WMP. So, I hope they trade him and don't make big OF deals, thus leaving them with holes there.
Heh, I just hope the Lidge trade happens. That would equal much hilarity for us all season long!

Also, I forgot to mention that Meche seems not to be a guy who handles pressure real well. I've heard this sort of thing from Ms fans for a while now..he's very unpredictable, etc..

Kasey always spoke lowly of Meche and though often times he was bashing the yankees, if he bashed a non yankee, you know it was legit.

I don't see the sox getting jones and the braves are no doubt happy about it. They were gonna give them crisp hansen and I believe somebody else. Hansen's value is in the basement and crisp is not jones, the angels and other teams have a lot more to offer for Jones. The angels can legitimately get manny, jones, or soriano. They have the most ready right now prospects of any team in baseball

Guys, Houston isn't going to trade BOTH of its closers, I'm sorry. Maybe one or the other with somebody else, but DEFINITELY not Lidge AND Wheeler.

That was just a redsox fan's wish. Just ignore it.

I think the Phillies are trying to get Soriano too .. although I don't know what they'd do w/Pat Burrell. Sori to Philly would make Washington look sooo dumb for not trading him at the deadline.

I still don't understand how the Nats' GM still has a job.

Me neither, but you'd think they'd have to can him if Sori ended up on a division rival.

Phillies have no intentions of holding onto burrell. I would imagine with utley at 2nd, they are looking to replace burrell with soriano

Gina, when I knew about the "storm" I thought: "Only if I could be a blanket near Gina" ;-)

Dunno if anyone else already mentioned it, but Reds signed A-Gonz to a 3-year deal. Looking more and more like Julio Lugo is going to the Red Sox. Just fyi.

If I were the Red S*x GM, I would always go looking for the guys that give the Yankees trouble.

Holy **** I just scored an IQ of 126 while watching tv and talking online....I bet I can get in the 130 range totally concentrated, which equals gifted but not a genius.

I wouldn't normally buy into internet IQ tests but based on the description they gave for my IQ, it is dead on accurate which is scary.

TOUCHDOWN MICHIGAN, WE'RE NOT GONNA DIE, 35-30 and going for two!..........hart is absolutely amazing, I hope the giants can get him somehow in the draft, he reminds me a ton of tiki barber.

***, go for 2?! lloyd carr is an idiot. First he throws a bomb on 3rd and 1 and then punts when the interception was reversed, now in the 4th quarter against the one team in the country he kicks an extra point rather than cut the lead to a field goal, when a touchdown puts you away regardless of the situation but now they need another td to win rather than field goal to tie. Makes no sense.

HAHAHAAHAH BROWN FUMBLE, MICHIGAN BALL!!!! THREE TURNOVERS FROM THE "HEISMAN"!!? HAHAHAHAH

Looks like Ohio St in the "championship" game. Unless a miracle happens.

So, if this Ohio lead holds and then Rutgers finishes the season undefeated as well: Ohio St. vs. Rutgers for the "title?"

What happens if Rutgers loses? Boise State is the only other undefeated. Should they get a shot?

(IMO, Boise State is NOT better than any 1 loss team, but they are undefeated. Shouldn't that mean something?)

Rutgers has only played louisville, they have played nobody difficult, they do not deserve a title shot undefeated or not. Michigan might lose to the undefeated national champion by 3 pts. They have defeated Notre Dame, played with ohio state, beat penn state and iowa, i see no reason why there is no rematch on even ground and not in ohio.

that was an amazing game though

Any other top 10 1 loss team should get the shot over Michigan. I do not believe a rematch should be allowed unless Michigan is CLEARLY better than any other 1 loss team in the country. That is not the case.

Btw, IF Rutgers goes undefeated, they will have beaten West Virginia as well.

the way i see it, usc lost to an unranked team, florida might deserve a shot, im not familiar with their schedule but i know they have 1 loss, rutgers just doesn't have the strength. My vote is michigan or florida, i'm checking their schedule now....I mean you lose to the 1 seed at home it is expected, and it was 3 pts

The whole system is flawed Rob. Why should teams get a head start? Why should there be pre-season rankings? Lets assume a scenario. The teams ranked 1 and 2 in the preseason have a strength of schedule X. The 9th and 10th ranked teams have strength of schedule Y > X but not quite enough to make up for the difference between 9th and 10th rank to 2nd. Say all four teams are unbeaten. Doesn't it mean that the 9th and 10th ranked teams performed better than the 1st and 2nd ranked teams? Why should the 1st two teams play the BCS?

Sorry, Vince, I gotta disagree. Michigan had a chance to beat Ohio St. and didn't. Before they get a 2nd chance you've got to give a 1st chance to the others.

If Rutgers finishes undefeated, they've got to get a shot. They're in a BCS Conference regardless of whether or not you think it's a strong one. And to finish undefeated they'll have to beat W. Virginia, which is also a top-ten team. Arguably not as strong a schedule as some of the 1-loss teams, but if only 2 BCS Conference teams go undefeated, I don't see how you can deny them the title game.

if florida beats florida state, which i expect, they would have defeated florida state, LSU, georgia and alabama, and their loss to a top 10 team in auburn, I would not mind them being in the national championship either. Though I hope they are in the orange bowl and play in miami where I will see and root for them.

austin, strength of schedule is a major variable of the BCS rankings. Last I checked michigan's strength of schedule was around 95% and rutgers was 87%. How can you tell me losing to the number 1 seed in their home in a 3 pt game should punsih them? They didn't ask to play osu in the regular season esp on the road, so how do you penalize Michigan for playing a great game against the 1 seed?

Yes, the whole system is flawed, and should be replaced by a playoff system like every other sport/division, if you really want a true national champion.

WV lost to louisville, louisville lost to rutgers, if rutgers beats both they are a top 5 team, but the fact of the matter is most of their season has been against pushovers

Vince, it is almost impossible for teams in SEC to stay unbeaten. Big 10 doesn't have any great teams outside of OSU and Mich. SEC has Florida, LSU, Tennessee, Georgia, Auburn and this year even Arkansas AND then the SEC championship game. USC has a hard schedule too. So, it should be OSU Vs USC or SEC champion depending on what they do rest of the way.

I know the system is flawed. I was actually being a little facetious. I hate the BCS, although they have taken some decent steps to improve it. Fact is, the BCS (or BSC, as I like to call it) was created by Notre Dame and the 6 BCS conferences to protect their stranglehold on the big money bowls. They did not want teams like BYU (National Champions, 1984), Utah (first BSC buster), Boise State (probably BSC buster this year), or any other "lesser" conference team to ever have a chance to break into that money, or to even have a chance to get a title. It was only after a great deal of public outrage that changes were made to allow "mid-major" conferences to have a shot to get in.

Yeah, the 6 BSC conferences are the best ones. But that doesn't mean a school from another conference can't put together a darn good team once in a while that is deserving of a shot at the title, like Utah a couple of years ago.

(IMO, it should have been either Utah or Auburn playing USC for the "title", not Oklahoma, who didn't even win their conference.

Looking at USC's schedule if they remain with one loss, they deserve a shot too....I don't think they will beat cal and notre dame though.

The thing is Big 10 is the big money conference with all the big, rich schools and alumni. That is where the money is. So the rankings (because they factor in some human votes) is UNDERSTANDABLY biased to big 10. The media will be campaigning hard for a rematch.

I'm not penalizing them, just saying they had their chance. How do you penalize Rutgers for not losing to anybody? Isn't it possible that the best team in the country doesn't necessarily play the toughest schedule? Isn't it possible that Rutgers is the best team in the country. As long as there are undefeated BCS teams, any team that has lost cannot claim #1. Right now you can't say Michigan is better than Ohio State. They played a tough game on the road, but they lost. Somebody else might be.

Iowa penn state, michigan ohio state and wisconsin are all legit teams, not the best division but it still has the top 2 teams in the country.

You are right Rob. The two years USC won the nat championship, their opponent should have been LSU and Auburn respectively.

Yes, you can penalize rutgers for not having the toughest schedule. If the redsox played the NL all season and we're trying to win best record in the AL and the Yankees played the AL all year would you think the redsox should have a fair shot at beating the best team in baseball just like the Yankees if one had to be chosen and if the yankees only had a worse record because they lost once to the best team? No, it is not fair, Rutgers is tremendously overrated

Oklahoma was ONLY in the title game due to that headstart you talked about from the preseason rankings.

After watching today's game I don't think they are the two best teams Vince. Neither team had any answers on defense. Its ok if they are strong on offense and just OK on defense. But today it looked like the defenses were lacking. What it showed is a properly planned offense will easily score on these defenses.

Vince, you can't compare the Yankees and Red S*x in this. Why?

Baseball has an actuall playoff. And there are CLEAR parameters for who makes those playoffs and who doesn't. They decide it on the field.

College football is partially decided in the polls, and not just on the field.

Do any of you know what the pre-season rankings are based on? Don't tell me its just somebody's opinion. Please.

Levelhead = Vik? Is that right?

Pre-season rankings are largely based on what a team did the previous year, factoring in personel returning and other such stuff.

Oh yea, and the combined, personal opinions of a bunch of sports writers (AP poll) or coaches (Coaches poll.)

How do you know Rutgers is overrated? They've beat everybody on their schedule so far. Maybe they are, but the only way to know is to give them a shot.

It is one thing if Rutgers played some tough teams, and maybe not the toughest. But let's review:

1. They barely edge UNC a team that is barely division 1, 21-16.

2. They blow out a 2 in team in Illinois

3. They beat Ohio at home by 17...an unranked team that has not been ranked in multiple years.

4. They blow out Howard a teama nobody has ever heard of, once again at home.

5. They barely beat south florida, 22-20, another unranked, unknown team that they barely defeat.

6. They blew out Navy, a notoriously terrible team and bottom dweller in their already easy division.

7. They beat Pitt by 10, a decent, but unranked team better known for basketball.

8. They beat Uconn by 11, a team that lost to syracuse today and I'm not sure if they will ever be ranked.

9. Then yes, by 3 pts they beat the then 3 seed in the country, the same margin of victory michigan lost to the 1 seed, and a distant 1 seed by. Oh yeah and rutgers was at home, michigan was on the road against their ultimate rivals.

Penalized? Yes I think so.

Best case scenario? they also beat WV, another good team, but 2 doesn't make up for all the barely D 1 teams they have beaten. Who do they play besidea WVU? Cinncinatti and syracuse, two more awful teams.

2 win team*

Vik, just because they score on each other, two teams they play each other each and every year with the same coaches for the past 6, does not mean anybody else can run up points against them too. Michigan came in with the number 1 rush defense in the country.

Rob, would you even feel the sox deserved to be in the playoffs if they played the NL all season, over the yankees? Or in this case, the title game? If the leagues were how they are now and the division format was hot it was 50 years go when the winners of the leagues would go straight to the ws, would it be fair? No of course not.

Vince, even the best prepared schedules can turn out to be "weak." Out of conference schedules are usually arranged 2-3 years in advance. Even if a team is strong when the schedule is arranged, they may not be when the actual game day comes around.

Fact is, too much of who is #1 in college football is decided on paper and not on the field. If that happened in baseball, the Yankees would win just about every year. (not that I think that would be a bad thing....)

The way I see it, tough Rutgers didn't get to play and probably lose to more elite teams, but they should not get a sympathy bid just because they are a cheap undefeated team....and yes I'm from NJ

Vince, comparing baseball to college football is apples and oranges. In baseball, they have 162 games to decided who are the best teams, then they put those teams against each other in a playoff. And no, the best team doesn't always win.

College football they play 11-12 games a year. Plus, when you play only 11-12 teams out of 100+ in Division 1A football, how can you really say one team is better than another that has played a completely different schedule? Sure, you can look at strength of schedule and all that, but, fact is, the college football "champion" is hardly decided on the field. Hence why there is almost always controversy about who makes it to the title game.

Not to mention michigan didn't just beat Notre dame, they embarressed them...on the road. They beat wisconsin by 14, they won at penn state, they beat iowa by 14. Of the pushovers, the only team that even came close was ball state who lost by 8, unlike rutgers who had two games of 5 pts or less against unranked teams.

Vince, in the old baseball playoffs, one team from each league, yes, the first place team from the weaker league deserves to be in the Series more than the second place team from the stronger league. If you can't win your own league you're not the best team.

The World Series wasn't between the two best teams from the "stronger" league.

There is always controversy because no undefeated team wants to be told they are beatable before they even play. Fine, compare it to the NFL, should the giants and say, a team in the seahawks division be held to the same standards? If you eliminated the first 2-3 rounds of the playoffs and only had a superbowl should both be treated equally? I mean it is ridiculous.

Vince, Michigan is ranked number one rush defense in the country. Based on what? Their performance against teams in Big 10 which is my point. As soon as they face a REAL offense, you saw what happened.

Yeah because that is the format, college football doesn't have a 2 league format, the question is is that fair? The answer is no. if you can't win your own league you're not the best? That makes no sense, Michigan is playing a team nobody else can beat or come close to beating and they happen to be their arch rivals and in ohio, how can that not mean something? And it was a 3 pt game.

Ohio state is the big 10 first of all, 2nd of all based on everybody they have played. The same argument can be applied to rutgers defense who played pushovers all season and then had their defense lit up by louisville

I actually made the comments about Rutgers being in the title game because I knew that it would spark a debate. Really I was just trying to point out how flawed this whole system is. Why shouldn't Rutgers have a chance at the title? If they win their conference and go undefeated, why should they be "penalized" and told, "you're not good enough because you didn't play "better" teams.

Anyway, I gotta take off. I'll be back later to see how you all ripped me apart. Fact is, I know my argument is flawed as well. There is merit in saying that a team has a "weak" schedule and doesn't have a shot, but it would be nice if they could develop a playoff that would give ALL division 1A teams a chance at a championship, regardless of odds. Let the players decide it, not the sports writers and computers.

So what you're saying is only a team from the best conference or two can possibly the best team in the country?

IMO if they want a true national champion, they should take the winner of each conference and have a playoff. 2nd place teams don't get in. Again, if you can't win your own league, you have no claim to being the best.

Rob that is basically how I feel, I'm not saying it's not a tough break for rutgers and I completely support a playoff format (and I wish the orange bowl had a national champion contender in it this year)

One last note before I take off:

Why shouldn't Michigan have a chance at Ohio St. again?

Because, realistically, every game in college football is a playoff game in the current format. They had their chance today and lost. Now it is somebody else's turn to have a shot. And if Rutgers is undefeated, why not put them up against the only other undefeated team (besides BSU, which I would agree does not deserve a shot at the title because they really DID play weak competition.)

The purpose of the championship game is to crown the best team in the country. Now Ohio State has proven that they are better than Mich. So, Mich is eliminated because it can't be the best in the country anymore. Now, what remains to be seen is if OSU is the best in the country. There is no way Mich should be in the title game. The question is should rutgers be in it. I don't have an answer to that.

I mean even baseball has wildcard, which happens to have been most of the winners lately, I don't mind strength of schedule factoring in but I don't think one game should decide a national champion. There should be a playoff, but I don't know based on what. The biggest issue teams like the bluejays in baseball have is they have the yankees and redsox in their division then teams like the giants have nobody impressive. In that sense yes u can compare baseballa nd college football

Mathematically speaking, if there are n conferences, we need n/2 + n/4 + n/8 ... + 1 playoff games to completely eliminate controversy. As simple as that.

Rutgers should not be in it, and ohio state proved they can barely win against them at home, which is a huge difference, especially with an arch rival. If every game is a playoff game in college football then it's like saying here yankees in order to make the world series, you need to beat the redsox in fenway, while this team here doesn't have to play them at all, oh and the redsox are the best team by far....CLEARLY that is a hypothetical.

Well I think we are all in agreement, a bcs playoffs would make the most sense.

Technically, a win is a win and OSU beat MI. End of story.

Vince, I don't much like Ohio State OR Michigan, and I'm only mildly interested in Rutgers because I like the idea that the school that started college football is suddenly doing so well.

I just think that until somebody beats Rutgers, you can't say they're not the best. Somebody has beaten Michigan, so as long as there are undefeated teams, they can't be champs.

And even though I don't think Boise State is the best team, I would give them the same chance until somebody beats them. How else can a team from a weaker conference prove themselves? The best you can do is win all your games.

technically usc lost to an unranked team instead of the one seed in the country and rutgers has played a bunch of toddlers, technically goes a long way.

how? First of all rutgers should be in one of the 4 major bowl games, but mainly if they have such a great season this year than next year they should have a harder schedule, if they still perform then they should have a shot, but it's not fair in a 10-11 game season that when you lose to a 1 seed in their home and it would be a close game anyway, you should be rejected a shot at the national title.

But they are still the best teams in their respective conferences and there is no way you can tell YET that they are NOT the best in the country. Which is is not the case with MI.

You have to look at it as elimination. Suppose you have to pick the highest number amongst 10 and you see the 9th and 10th highest numbers first, you eliminate the 9th immediately. You dont hang on to it until you see the other 8.

If you look at it like elimination than rutgers would be ranked 2 and boise 3 right now. USC would be done a long time ago. Why play the remainder of the schedule once you lose if only undefeated teams should play for the national championship? Yes every game is essential but by no means should it be elimination, esp when u lost to the best team in the nation before u matched up

Actually, my first preference for college football (warning: the following may be considered dangerous, subversive, communist, and a definite threat to national security and the American way of life) would be to eliminate the whole "national champion" thing and go back to the old bowl games where the winner of Conference X plays the winner of Conference Y in the Z Bowl. That way lots of teams get to feel good about their season, about 1/3 of the population believes their team was #1, and everybody is perfectly happy arguing about it.

because, your opponent may be unbeaten AND there are other bowl games to be played. Why play your games after you are eliminated out of playoffs??

USC would not be gone because they still have the best record in their conference.

if they have such a great season this year than next year they should have a harder schedule, if they still perform then they should have a shot

Posted by: yankeevmm@yahoo.com | November 18, 2006 08:11 PM

Next year should have nothing to do with this year. It's not a cumulative championship.

But their conference in inferior and they lost to an unranked team, whats the difference between losing to a bad team in their conference or a worse team out of conference? so then a team that loses to temple but beats everybody in their division is then better than michigan too? that is absurd.

You don't play games when you are eliminated from the playoffs, which is why the regular season of college football should not be considered playoff games, lose and ur out

Actually Austin, it does have to do with ***.

hahahhahaahahaahah wow, ok, it does have to do with cumulative, apparently mlb blogs do not like shortening that word hahahah.

Inferior? How do you know that?

Regarding playoffs. In baseball there is only on target. World series championship. In college football, once you are eliminated out of the title game, there are other things to play for.

*on=one

Rutgers is losing to Cincinnati 16-0

that's not true. In baseball there are a series of goals. Winning the division, if not the division than the wildcard, then winning the alds, the alcs and then the world series. The overall goal is the ws, just like the overall goal is the national championship, but if u lose the division to a team (mich and osu) should u not be entitled a wildcard shot at the ws, or in this case the nat cham? There are still games left before the national championship, just like playoffs before the ws

Shocking, rutgers is struggling against another mediocre team.

Inadvertant potty mouth...er, fingers?

You're right, in the voting circles reputation counts, esp. in regards to the aforementioned pre-season polls. But the championship should not be based on previous years especially in college where you have guaranteed turnover. To use your baseball analogy, should they have required the Tigers to have a winning for a couple of years before they were allowed into the playoofs?

All the goals you listed are steps towards achiveing one goal. In college football they are fallback options.

I heard several college football analysts predict Cincy would beat Rutgers, because it was a perfect trap game. On the road, coming off a big win, lightly regarded opponent, and Rutgers was beginning to pay more attention to the argument that we've been having about do they belong? Classic upset scenario.

That is not true, some teams goals in college football are just to be nationally ranked.

Austin, likewise should the tigers have been allowed to play the yankees again just because they were 2-5 against them in the regular season?

So if Rutgers loses we can argue about Boise State d;>

Yeah my sister's fiance said it the day after rutgers won that cinci would beat them

Obviously not, Vince, the Yankees should have been declared automatic champions.

Considering I am not positive boise state has played a ranked opponent, and definitely not a top 10, I don't think there is much of an argument.

haha, i miss the yankees playing so much. My heart just isn't into this as much as it is baseball

OK, good talk gang, but now I have to go rent a video and eat dinner, ttyl....btw thanksgiving break kicks *** and yess i have the full week off

And lost in all this talk is that unranked team that beat USC, the real OSU, Oregon State! Go Beavs!

I'm out too. Later.

Vince, the lack of a playoff system is what caused this mess. If we had one we wouldn't have had this discussion. Because we dont have one, we can't compare.

later guys

I agree vik, later.

Looks like I created a monster. lol. Great discussion.

Well, Rutgers lost. And since Boise State will never be considered for the "title" game (even if they beat Nevada next week), we have a controversy now about which 1 loss team is the most deserving. Fun, fun, fun.

Wow, I got a catelog from MLB.com in the mail today.

How the **** did they get my address?

Oh, wait....

Yesterday the Post says Lilly interest is lukewarm. Today they report Cashman is a free agent Cashman admits having an interest in. GRRR. Lilly's rep says Lilly would like to hear from the Yanks (who doesn't?) and they are looking $36 mil/4 yr. If I am Cashman, I'm not looking that high for a .500 pitcher w/a career 4.60 ERA.

Also say they'd have interest in Pettitte if he wants to a) come back or b) come back to NY. Personally, I think it's Houston or retire for Andy. Another thing to remember is that the second-go arounds usually only serve to remind you why you let a person go in the first place.

The value of Lilly (and others) will be inflated because the market is so weak this year.

Yanks refuting claims by Wes Helms. Apparently Yanks had an interest in Helms for 1b, but not as much as Helms is stating. Helms will platoon @ 3b for the Phils.

***Lilly is a free agent Cashman has interest in***

Thanks, Mike. Those Helms claims sounded like balderdash.

Do you want more balderdash? Remember that foolish article about Jeter not deserving the MVP because of ARod by some paid hack named Phil Taylor?

Well he has a twin in Ken Davidoff of Newsday.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spkdjeter194982587nov19,0,1224671.column?coll=ny-yankees-print

Here is a quote from his column:

_________________

If anything, in these eyes, Jeter's MVP candidacy takes a hit when you explore his off-the-field contributions.

_________________

Did I miss a meeting where the MVP determination took into consideration factors not related to playing?

Maybe the voting should include a review of his fashion sense, sexual prowess, religion, political voting, driving record, grocery shopping patterns, and whether he sleeps in a bed or in a coffin during the day?

When did we reach the point wherein sports commentators have utterly and completely lost the grasp of the sport of which they seemingly are paid to exhibit even the most rudimentary smidge of knowledge?

Have sports columnists simply run out of things to write about?

Another quote:

_________________

And we've seen how much Jeter has loathed playing alongside Rodriguez, all the way back to A-Rod's introductory news conference in 2004. We've witnessed Jeter scowl at the third baseman when the two collided while pursuing a pop fly in August. We've seen Jeter repeatedly shrug when asked about his struggling teammate.

_________________

Jeter scowled? Egad none of that allowed! How could anyone ever vote for an MVP for this season who scowled in 2004 or back in August?

Looks like I picked a bad week to give up crack cocaine.

Airplane!

Paul:

Used alternate e-mail address, but read what I sent you regarding Davidoff.

Mike

I love that movie and use schtick from it all the time.

After the above post on the Davidoff column I posted a sarcastic response on the Newsday blog. And now I have written some more thoughts but realize it is more than 750 words.

Should I post that here? I am not sure it is even finished as it was steam of consciousness and some points could use further development.

Maybe I need my own blog so I could rant about baseball and other things.

Like packaging.

There are many aspects of packaging that irritate me.

1. packages that cannot be opened without power tools,

2. over packaging, like CD shrink wrapped and then sealed inside a paper box itself wrapped in plastic,

3. cereal packaging that cannot be opened without shredding the liner and tossing cereal all over,

4. ok, there are many others but I will stop there.

Yes I saw it, Mike, thanks. I responded.

And I will post my undeveloped thoughts here, following. It might be fodder for further discussion, or not.

Jorge, here is why ARod must be traded. And let me repeat MUST.

Before ARod was here Jeter seemed to have no enemies, other than the fans of other teams he played against. But they always respected him.

Now with ARod’s multiple years of playoff failure, his acolytes have attempted to diffuse and misdirect attention to Jeter’s failings to embrace and coddle the poor, mistreated, misunderstood third baseman.

You wonder why I call this a circus?

This is not baseball, it is a collection of people trying to turn the NY Yankees from the pinnacle of all that is good in all of sport into a reality show where someone is voted off the island.

Americans are obsessed with “reality” television. Networks continue to churn out show after show to entertain America.

Now there are alleged sports writers producing thousands of words of prose dedicated to whether Jeter scowled at ARod and whether he loves him enough. They crave cameras in the locker rooms and in their homes to monitor their interactions 24 hours a day.

What happened to baseball? What happened to watching the plays on the field? What happened to the cheering for quality?

Instead we have the ARod-ing of baseball. Personally I detest what has happened to the sport that I love.

I was lucky enough to win a contest this season of a DVD set of the New York Yankees 17 Championship Seasons 1943-2000. I was alive for 9 of those championships, but I vividly remember 6 of them.

Watching these DVDs stir up in me the emotions of what it is to be a Yankee fan. What it is to be proud of quality and sportsmanship and excellence in the clutch.

It reminded me of the role players who stepped up and the regulars who performed so well.

Cecil Fielder

Scott Brosius

Greg Nettles

Brian Doyle

Bucky Dent

Chris Chambliss

Paul O’Neil

Tino Martinez

Reggie Jackson

Rich Gossage

Jim Beattie

Mike Torrez

Roger Clemens

Ron Guidry

Chad Curtis

Shane Spencer

Jim Leyritz

Joe Girardi

Mariano Rivera

Jorge Posada

Bernie Williams

Derek Jeter

That is but a partial list. But each was a champion in his own way.

But we have lost it. We hear over and over (and over and over) how we have the greatest player ever to play baseball. And his strikeouts, balls ground into double plays, and egregious fielding blunders are just an aberration. Just wait until next year. We know he will put up big numbers.

Well that is not it. The mark of a champion is not personal accomplishment. It is team accomplishment. Yes, a team accomplishes anything because of a combination of individual efforts that accumulate to a particular result, but certain chemistry contributes to the outcome.

Now I have read many times that chemistry has nothing to do with baseball. I differ from that opinion. When any result is measured from a team of people working to realize a set goal whether by individual or collective performance, interaction between and among those individuals will be reflected in the result.

Back in the days of the Bronx Zoo during the many incarnations of Billy Martin fighting in the clubhouse seemed to be a desired result and in spite of that the Yankees won 2 championships but not much else. Those were the days when George would trade half the team each season. Those were constant times of turmoil and not necessarily the best of baseball. The Yankee comeback in 1978 was still amazing under the calming influence of Bob Lemon, but those were indeed different times.

In more recent years the Yankees have made an effort to jettison players who sought to cause trouble. A decent player, Mel Hall, was sent packing when he taunted the quiet and shy Bernie Williams, who was then allowed to develop into one of the greatest Yankees ever.

Miscreant Raul Mondesi was sent packing as well as Gary Sheffield, but the latter more because there was no place for him to play, but he should have been shipped out earlier.

Am I suggesting ARod is the same as Hall, Mondesi, or Sheffield? Not necessarily the same, but I cannot recall seeing a move divisive force on the Yankees since Billy Martin.

Is that divisive force ARod himself or the coterie of supplicants who attack other players as a way to prop up their idol? Not sure. But it is NOT anything that will now, or ever, make the Yankees a championship team.

The presence of ARod continues to drag the Yankees down into the dirt and he must go.

Paul: Our votes last year would have been identical.

Just a reminder to check our club's site, www.lvyankeefanclub.com and click on radio. Upgrades are being made for the show and the site mistakenly says "next week" Dec. 3rd when next week is Nov. 26th. Anyway, it looks like a brief respite until the 3rd. If there is a change I'll inform you. If you missed last week's show and want to hear that, feel free to download it. It's available through the site.

Paul: You calling ARod a divisive force is no different from the media people calling out Jeter for not standing up for ARod. Yes, ARod struggled a bunch last year. But he never blamed anybody for that. How can he be the divisive force?

BTW, here is a great site to see diagrams and dimensions of baseball parks---esp. those "lost parks" of long ago...

I know all about the parks, but for those of you who don't know about or never heard of the Baker Bowl, Forbes Field, the Polo Grounds, etc. and want to see the shapes, dimensions, etc. of the field, check out

http://www.andrewclem.com/Baseball/

Just a few I'd recommend. The Baker Bowl, Polo Grounds, Griffith Stadium, and the Memorial Coliseum (L.A. Coliseum, where the Dodgers played 1958-1961).

Vik, sorry that you are unable or unwilling to make the distiction. In fact there is a great difference.

I said I am not sure if he is the divisive force or if his supplicants are. There was no conflict about Jeter doing his job before the offensive defense of ARod came up.

It was not like this before him. I am not a recent fair weather fan. I have been a Yankee fan all my life. There were many dark and stormy years. Many times Steinbrenner did as much harm as good embroiling the team in controversy and stupidity.

The Torre years seem to have restored the Yankees to the upper echelon of sport, bringing a calm and civility in a game played the right way.

Watching the videos these past few days of the Yankee championship years brought out what the Yankees are missing. Reading the effluence this morning from the likes of Ken Davidoff affirmed that ARod is in fact all that is wrong with baseball, and Vik, your telling me that I am just like those media persons confirmed once again, ARod must go.

Ugh... reading that article about Jeter, Paul. First quote that pissed me off..

"Morneau also did his best work when it counted the most."

And what, Jeter did his best work when no one was looking or cared or it mattered? Is he not known as Mr. Clutch? Don't pitchers on other teams say that the guy they least want to see come up to the plate late in a game is Mr. Jeter. Grr...

That is an interesting website, Mike. Thanks!

I am definitely not unwilling to make the distinction. I just am unable to see it. IF THERE IS ONE.

Nope. It is not ARod's or Jeter's or any athlete's fault that the media and it's viewers are obesessed with drama more than the sport itself. It's not their fault that the media makes THEIR OWN interpretations of every single thing that they do, every single gesture they make, every single look they look. It is not their fault that some idiot was willing to pay $25M/yr. It is not their fault that another team wanted to trade for them. It is not their fault that people still hang on to the rivalry between two players long after the players themselves work it out OR seemed to have worked it out. It is not their fault that media says dumbs things about what they should have done and what they shouldn't have.

If his supplicants are the divisive force, what does that tell about the people that were affected by it? To blame what one Mr Davidoff did on ARod is just looking for a place to put the blame on.

WOW! Mike on the Yankee Stadium page on the above link the author, Andrew Clem wrote some interesting thoughts. I commend it to all, not just because my above thoughts echo some of the same sentiments.

Here is one paragraph.

It is hard to remember now, but the Yankees' rise to near invincibility in the late 1990s was remarkable because of the relative paucity of big-name stars. Their victories were the result of a special quality in which the whole was greater than the sum of its parts, what one might call "team spirit." The retirement of Paul O'Neill, Chuck Knobloch, and Scott Brosius after the 2001 season, and the trading away of Tino Martinez to the Cardinals, left a void that all of those head-spinning mega-trades could not fill. It just ain't the same, but then all good things must come to an end. The following table compares the two greatest Yankees teams of my lifetime, that of 1962 and 2000. Only three of those on the latter roster are still Yankees...

That I agree. The team then had a lot more chemistry than the club now. Giambi, Mussina, ARod, Sheff all produced as expected. But the chemistry will not be the same. But to blame that ONLY on ARod is ridiculous. Its just how the yankees did business in the recent past that has to take the blame.

Unwilling AND unable, Vik.

ARod fed the media. Over and over and over.

He is better than Jeter. He works harder than everyone. He is smarter and better looking than all the others.

That is not divisive, Vik?

He is not killing puppies and drinking their blood. He is driving a wedge, a distinction between him and other players. Because he is better than the rabble.

Divisive, adjective. 1. forming or expressing division or distribution. 2. creating division or discord.

The American College Dictionary

It was not like this before ARod. The team of champions were free of teammates who claimed to be better, work harder than the other teammates.

Even David Wells spoke of teamwork.

Once again, Vik you twist my words. Where did I say ONLY ARod was to blame?

I do not care how many MVPs ARod wins.

I do not care how many RBI he gets.

I do not care how many homeruns he hits.

I do care that he played good baseball and was part of a team that gave every effort to win, even if they did not win.

A true champion eschews personal aggrandizement.

Derek Jeter is a true champion among a history of Yankee champions.

Wasn't it Reggie Jackson who called himself Mr. October, and "the straw that stirred the drink?"

Well he was truly a Yankee great, performing to his claims and then some.

Here was a Yankee who lived up to the hype.

I would like to see a few more of the "name" players moved this offseason.

Randy Johnson has been a playoff dud and the questions about his pitching next year make him an unpalatable option.

Carl Pavano may have had valid injuries, maybe not. I do not like him. I do not like his attitude. I do not like his ability as a pitcher inthe 17 games he did pitch. he must go.

Jason Giambi is a very nice guy, I hear, and I have judged him harshly. And he carried the offensive for more than one stretch this year, but he has come up small in playoff situations, and he blocks the Yankees from putting the best team on the field. He is a poor 1B player except for his glove (catching, as opposed to fielding and throwing). He is brittle and especially subject to injury when playing 1B.

These changes should all be made this offseason. Will they be? Not likely because of restrictive contracts.

Its disturbing to me that Im actually starting to get sick of hearing about Jeter...

"Jorge, here is why ARod must be traded. And let me repeat MUST.

Before ARod was here Jeter seemed to have no enemies, other than the fans of other teams he played against. But they always respected him."

If that is not blaming ARod, I dont know what is.

Regarding what he said to the media, if you have noticed, the media which promptly puts everything thats even close to having potential to be controversial on TV, never put any of these SUPPOSED TO SAID ARod statements on TV. They just say parts of what ARod said out of context. Did you ever see or hear directly the whole conversations of ARod in the said situations? I didn't think so. You use the ramblings of the same media that you blame in case of other players to support your case against ARod. Can you provide me a link to the interview where ARod cliamed he worked hardER than any of his teammates?

You caring about Jeter doesn't warrant hating ARod. I like both of them.

I am going to go back to talking about snack food.

I wish I had some snacks now.

Vince your show is on at 4 today or are you off on vacation?

BREAKING NEWS:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6188248

Cubs close to signing Alfonso Soriano to an 8 year deal.

Deal could be worth up to $135 million.

Just so you guys know, I am ok with trading ARod if an opportunity presents itself. But to say that we MUST trade him is baseless.

Geez, Vik, you just don't get it.

Did I say I hate ARod? I do not like him. I do not like what he stands for in the Me First of baseball.

ARod is a divisive element. No doubt in my mind. Not Jeter. Not Torre. Not me.

ARod. And his fans.

You have never seen reports where ARod says he works harder than anyone?

Sorry, not going to research that for you. You do the work on that one.

The smarter and better looking than anyone comment is likely out of context. But can you imagine a context where that is not divisive?

Not sure what statements made in print have to do with what they air on TV. I see no correlation or relevance to disproving my point. Little takes statements or anything out of context more often than electronic "journalism" or, more accurately, for what passes as journalism today. Personally, I rely mostly on printed word, displayed on paper or Internet renditions of that. I would consider Mark's writings on mlb.com akin to print journalism rather than electronic 15 second sound bites.

No idea why my saying ARod must go is twisted into a personal thing. No idea why Randy Johnson fans don't go out attacking those who say he is a total failure in the postseason.

Indeed the Davidoff column was the impetus for my latest offering in this discussion but so was watching the Yankee championship DVDs.

Am I the only one able to remember what it was to have a championship team where the team mattered more than the MVP?

Vik, baseless?

Baseless?

Geez.

Jorge asked me a couple of days ago why I would contemplate getting rid of such a talented ballplayer.

I am explaining my reasons.

Baseless????

Baseless = with no foundation, groundless.

Baseless?

After I carefully listed reasons I believe he must go, that is baseless?

Taking a break...will be back for Vince's show if there is one.

"Once again, Vik you twist my words. Where did I say ONLY ARod was to blame?"

"ARod is a divisive element. No doubt in my mind. Not Jeter. Not Torre. Not me.

ARod. And his fans."

That sounds like a contradiction to me.

If you just said ARod is a post season bust, there is no argument. The whole yankee team was a bust in the post season the last couple of years. RJ has been a TOTAL bust. See the difference?

"ARod is a divisive element. No doubt in my mind. Not Jeter. Not Torre. Not me.

ARod. And his fans."

Who said that? I'm just coming in on this conversation and couldn't see that said anywhere.

As a fan of Arod, I almost feel offended by that, lol.

I'm just getting a little sick of Jeter being portrayed as some kind of patron saint - when like anyone else he is human and has failings. Personally, I think a pedestal like that is dangerous - to put ANY athlete on.

Thanks for Sori news.

Stanton to Reds.

Speier to Angels (ouch. Their bullpen already kills the Yanks).

I was talking to Paul, Angel.

Oh okay, I didn't see it so I asked rather than assume. Well I said what I think, I should probably stay out of this conversation. It gets hard for me not take things personally (when I know they aren't at all) on this issue, lol. Besides being on outs with people on here over something we have no control over isn't worth it at all to me.

Besides I had to reformat my hard drive last night so I am spending too much time inserting disks and taking them out again only to redo the process with the next program - to post on this issue. Eek

Sure agree Angel. Have a good time reloading all your software. lol.

"Besides being on outs with people on here over something we have no control over isn't worth it at all to me."

Thats what I agree with .

I really don't buy the 'trade A-Rod' argument. You won't get anyone better at that position, and there really isn't any PROOF, other than what overzealous sports writers have speculated, that A-Rod is this tremendous clubhouse cancer.

Can't really compare him to Mel Hall or Reggie Jackson. We're talking about a guy who has had trouble shaking the jitters, not a guy who has caused a controversy with his words or caused harm to another player. We're also talking about a guy who has excelled in New York before. Thus I can't say I buy it.

Saying that he's in decline is an easy way to support an argument in favor of trading him, but once again, there isn't enough proof of that either. And I know that an excelling A-Rod outside of New York will make Brian Cashman look for a new job. Not sure I'm comfortable with that, especially so soon after the Tampa faction was stripped of its power.

You are right, Angel. I was wrong to generalize that ARod fans are divisive. Sorry.

What I should have said was ARod and those who defend him by attacking Jeter. That is a much smaller subset.

That I too am with you Paul. You cant blame one's struggles on another.

And I agree with you 100%, its just wrong - I've always cheered 100% for Jeter and always will.

I could see the point was being made in saying that though, thats why I said "almost", because I really wasnt offended. :-)

My goal is not to offend. Unless it is Carl Pavano fans. Then I cannot be held responsible for what I say. Blame Jeter and ARod for that.

Looks like there is no Vince and Beavis Show™ today.

Patriots won convincingly in Green Bay. But they have been 2 different teams, a mediocre one at home and a much better team at home.

If you HAD to chose between Pavano or TO to play on your team, who would you choose?

*chose=choose

You didn't offend me. As soon as I knew you were the one who'd said it, I knew what point you were trying to make. I think its easier to know where someone is coming from when its an opinion that you know they have reasons for, rather than some idiot troll who posts to stir up **** and then runs.

Well okay, but are we blaming them equally? LOL

I wonder if there is a "Friends of Carl Pavano" club? I dont know anyone who likes him.

I saw a FOX article that said Stanton might be the Reds closer...I said to myself they're in trouble if they're relying on Stanton as a closer.

Hahaha, I don't like him, and I don't think anybody does, but I'm not alone when I say that I will gladly accept him if he gives us 6 innings and a chance to win when he goes out to the mound.

Heck no, Swo. Its scary that the pitching market is so thin we can't afford to be picky if he does manage to get his act together. I have my doubts, but who knows. After seeking Kenny Rogers and Jeff Weaver, I'm never saying never again.

Unreal that T.O. has a children's book out.

The title? "Little T Learns to Share."

I'm not kidding.

I'm seriously thinking of putting a burqa over my computer to hide from all the spam i'm getting. I blame it for the evil reformat I had to do last night, lol.

As far as CP goes, I'd love to see him do ok for 2 months or half a year...to build up his trade value. Then dump him for someone and bring up Hughes (who hopefully will be kicking butt in AAA and have built up the arm and will be stretched out as far as innings, etc.). I don't think I'd get too many arguments over that thought process.

I'm getting a ton too, Angel. I blame the thing. I'd like to nuke the thing.

No arguments here. We need him to perform to get *something* of trade value for him.

I blame it too. Considering we are all getting exactly the same kind, too much of a conincidence.

I'm glad I used a yahoo account and not my server email for my login now.

Thankfully I have two hard drives so I didnt lose anything. I would have been fit to be tied if I'd lost any of my photos i've taken.

Looks like my alma mater in the Outback Bowl on Jan. 1. Who they play (from SEC) still TBA.

Michigan still #2. Ridiculous.

Bold November Prediction™ #1

Joba Chamberlain will be the first farm guy listed in the top 10 of prospect to make the team.

(Keep in mind that this is the same person who predicted the Yanks would sweep the White Sox in NY, sweep the Red Sox in Fenway in August, and win the World Series this year. Sometimes right and sometimes very very wrong.)

Really? That surprises me.

Poor Lola. Rutgers came down to earth, and I won't be shocked if they lose at Morgantown (W. VA) next week.

Surprised Michigan still # 2.

Looking like Ohio St. vs. the winner of ND/USC.

So who is shaping up for my alma mater's opponent? My alma mater is PSU. I'd have to check out the SEC standings. Florida is too high. LSU...too high. Auburn? Tennessee? Alabama?

Now I'm wondering.

Whoever gets Paul Posluszny (Sp.?) in the 1st round...is getting a good football player and a great young man.